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2023-06-11 - News Nation - Ross Coulthart / David Grusch

Disclaimer: This is a machine generated transcript and does include errors. Please check the original if necessary. 

Transcript:

Elizabeth Vargas (00:00:01):

For the first time, a former senior military intelligence officer comes forward to say what we've only imagined is true.

Ross Coulthart (00:00:09):

You are saying to the human race for the first time. We are not alone.

David Grusch (00:00:17):

We're definitely not alone.

Elizabeth Vargas (00:00:18):

Claims that our government has proof of alien life.

Ross Coulthart (00:00:22):

We have spacecraft from another species.

David Grusch (00:00:26):

We do, yeah.

Ross Coulthart (00:00:27):

How many?

David Grusch (00:00:28):

Quite a number. Some are landed, [00:00:30] some are crashed.

Elizabeth Vargas (00:00:31):

Allegations of a secret government program that has hidden the truth, that technology from the world.

David Grusch (00:00:38):

There's a sophisticated disinformation campaign targeting the US populace, which is extremely unethical and immoral and it's totally frightening

Elizabeth Vargas (00:00:47):

From Roswell to the present day. They're all going

Speaker 25 (00:00:50):

Against the wind. The wind's 120 Knots The West.

David Grusch (00:00:53):

There are non prosaic cases, a hundred percent unexplainable. I mean this is like tangible technical craft they're seeing.

Elizabeth Vargas (00:00:58):

Is this decorated officer [00:01:00] a liar?

Ross Coulthart (00:01:01):

Why Should we believe you

Elizabeth Vargas (00:01:02):

a fool?

Ross Coulthart (00:01:03):

Is it possible that you are deluding yourself?

Elizabeth Vargas (00:01:05):

Or a hero?

David Grusch (00:01:07):

I'm a patriot and I believe in truth to power in this.

Ross Coulthart (00:01:11):

We're talking about the biggest secret in human history.

Elizabeth Vargas (00:01:17):

We are not alone. The UFO whistleblower speaks.

(00:01:23):

Good evening. I'm Elizabeth Vargas here to bring you a news nation exclusive interview with a man. We're calling [00:01:30] the UFO whistleblower. David Grs is a career intelligence official who this week is making some bombshell claims of a US government coverup going back nearly a century shedding light. He says On that existential question, are we alone? News Nation has confirmed David Gus's credentials and resume. We have not seen or verified the alleged proof. He says he's provided to investigators, but [00:02:00] we want you to hear his story so you can decide for yourself. Mr. Grush sat down with investigative journalist Ross Col Hart, who is reporting for News Nation. Mr. Col Hart is an award-winning journalist and author who has reported for the Australian version of 60 Minutes as well as other news programs in his home country. What you're about to see is part of their conversation touching on Mr. Greer's work with the UAP task force, his background and his service to this country [00:02:30] and the alleged secret military program about which he says the world needs to know.

Ross Coulthart (00:02:37):

For decades, the UFO question has been consigned to the realm of speculation, conspiracy theory and science fiction.

Speaker 4 (00:02:46):

Can you say ET,

Ross Coulthart (00:02:50):

But in recent years, serious people have started taking the subject seriously. You'll

Sean Kirkpatrick (00:02:55):

See it come through the top of the screen. There it

Ross Coulthart (00:02:58):

Goes. Prompted in part by [00:03:00] the release of these videos purporting to show encounters between American naval aviators and what the Pentagon has labeled unidentified aerial or anomalous phenomena. Congress has convened hearings to determine what these UAP are and what threat they might pose.

Speaker 6 (00:03:20):

If UAP do indeed represent a potential threat to our security, then the capabilities, systems, processes, and sources we use to observe recorded study or analyze. These phenomena [00:03:30] need to be classified at appropriate levels.

Ross Coulthart (00:03:32):

The Department of Defense has established a special team, formerly known as the UAP Task Force recently renamed the all domain anomaly resolution office or RO to investigate and identify what are now hundreds of reported sightings. So far, they have not confirmed any of them to constitute proof of alien life. Officially, the government continues to state [00:04:00] we are indeed alone, but now for the first time, a former member of that official investigative team is speaking out, telling a stunning story that impacts every person on this planet. And now you're about to meet that man for the very first time in this exclusive television interview. Welcome. Have a seat. Maybe start [00:04:30] off telling me your name and who you are.

David Grusch (00:04:33):

My name is David Grusch. I came from a blue collar family in Pittsburgh. I didn't have the money for college. Always admired people in uniform and I've always wanted to be a part of something bigger than myself. 18 years ago I got an Air Force scholarship for physics. I originally commissioned on active duty in the Air Force, served 14 years in the Air Force.

Ross Coulthart (00:04:56):

I Look at this photograph, Dave and I see a very proud [00:05:00] officer.

David Grusch (00:05:01):

IWas getting promoted to captain when I was deployed.

Ross Coulthart (00:05:04):

And you still love your country, don't you?

David Grusch (00:05:05):

Absolutely.

Ross Coulthart (00:05:06):

A career intelligence officer. Grusch spent time on the ground in Afghanistan and other places he can't mention. Before rotating back to Washington,

David Grusch (00:05:17):

I was an intel officer for the US for 14 years. My last position, which I left in April of 2023, I co-led the UAP portfolio for the National Geospatial Intelligence [00:05:30] Agency and some of the highest officials within the Department of Defense and intelligence community used to call on me to advise them on some of the hardest target sets that the country had.

Ross Coulthart (00:05:40):

You are one of the most trusted former intelligence officials in the US defense and intelligence establishment.

David Grusch (00:05:48):

Yes, I was.

Ross Coulthart (00:05:49):

You were trusted with the most intimate secrets.

David Grusch (00:05:52):

Yes,

Ross Coulthart (00:05:53):

And he says the most earth shattering of those secrets revealed after 2019 when [00:06:00] he was invited to join the UAP task force. You had the security classifications to go anywhere and ask anyone anything.

David Grusch (00:06:09):

I Had based on my formal security clearance and multiple polygraphs, I had the ability to be read into any program that I needed at one point in time. I was extremely highly cleared.

Ross Coulthart (00:06:23):

What conclusion did you come to at the end of your time on the UAP task force?

David Grusch (00:06:29):

The UAP task [00:06:30] force was refused access to a broad crash retrieval program.

Ross Coulthart (00:06:35):

When you say crash retrieval, what do you mean?

David Grusch (00:06:38):

These are retrieving non-human origin technical vehicles, call it spacecraft if you will, non-human exotic origin vehicles that have either landed or crashed.

Ross Coulthart (00:06:49):

We have spacecraft from another species.

David Grusch (00:06:53):

We do, Yeah.

Ross Coulthart (00:06:54):

How many?

David Grusch (00:06:56):

Quite a number.

Ross Coulthart (00:06:57):

You're Kidding.

David Grusch (00:06:58):

No, I thought it was [00:07:00] totally nuts and I thought at first I was being deceived. It was a ruse. People started confiding in me, they approached me. I have plenty of current and former senior intelligence officers that came to me, many of which I knew almost my whole career that confided in me. They were a part of a program. They named the program. I've never heard of it, and they told me based on the oral testimony and they provided me documents and other proof that there was in fact a program that the UAP [00:07:30] task force was not read into.

Ross Coulthart (00:07:33):

You are alleging that the US government has been concealing the existence on this planet of alien life.

David Grusch (00:07:43):

I would couch it as non-human intelligence, NHI. What we would like to say in our language.

Ross Coulthart (00:07:49):

Why do you say that? Why do you say NHI?

David Grusch (00:07:51):

I don't want to necessarily denote origin. I don't think we have all the data to say, oh, they're coming from a certain location and I [00:08:00] couch it as somebody who studied physics where maybe they're coming from a different physical dimension as described in quantum mechanics. We know there's extra dimensions due to high energy particle collisions, et cetera, and there's a theoretical framework to explain that. Yeah.

Ross Coulthart (00:08:14):

Let me cut to the quick though. You are saying there is an intelligent species engaging with this planet. Yes.

David Grusch (00:08:22):

That's potentially extraterrestrial. Yeah.

Ross Coulthart (00:08:24):

I speak for everybody sitting at home. That is a shock.

David Grusch (00:08:28):

It was to me and [00:08:30] I had a lot of sleepless nights.

Ross Coulthart (00:08:33):

Grush says he's never personally seen non-human intelligence, but he's spoken to enough people directly involved in what he calls the program that he's convinced it's real.

David Grusch (00:08:46):

I started out as a nonbeliever. I came to the problem as a hardcore physics guy, intel officer, so I have a excuse my language, high factor. I was very methodical interviewing people who didn't know each other, making sure [00:09:00] this wasn't some kind of coverup of some other program.

Ross Coulthart (00:09:03):

He says he pressed to gain direct access to this program and that's when his trouble started. Grush claims his investigation was stymied, his requests for access rebuffed,

David Grusch (00:09:15):

They shut the door in my face. They denied me access to these programs.

Ross Coulthart (00:09:19):

Soon after he says he endured reprisals and retaliation from above, he then reported that information to the intelligence Community Inspector General. [00:09:30] That's why he's filed this whistleblower complaint. He says that experience is why he decided to go public here and in a recent article written by Leslie Kane in the debrief, you're not being paid for this interview.

David Grusch (00:09:45):

No, I'm not.

Ross Coulthart (00:09:46):

Why are you doing this?

David Grusch (00:09:47):

It's a sense of service. Call me a boy scout or whatever. When I saw the kind of wrongdoing I did, I don't want to be 60, 70 years old in the future and have that [00:10:00] coulda shoulda woulda kind of feeling where I could have made a difference. I did not want to live a life of regret.

Ross Coulthart (00:10:08):

You are saying to the human race for the first time, an official intelligence representative at a high level from the US government is saying publicly we are not alone.

David Grusch (00:10:23):

We're definitely not alone. Absolutely. The data points empirically that we're not alone. Yeah.

Ross Coulthart (00:10:28):

You've said that [00:10:30] we have the United States has spacecraft intact craft.

David Grusch (00:10:36):

We do.

Ross Coulthart (00:10:37):

Do we have bodies? Do we have species of

David Grusch (00:10:41):

Well, naturally, when you recover something that's either landed or crashed, sometimes you encounter dead pilots and believe it or not, as fantastical as that sounds, it's true.

Ross Coulthart (00:10:56):

Have you seen spacecraft?

David Grusch (00:10:58):

I've seen some interesting photos [00:11:00] and I've read some very interesting reports,

Ross Coulthart (00:11:02):

But he says the specific documents and photos that would prove his claims are still classified and he cannot disclose them Here, let's deal with the issue of your credibility. Why Should we believe you? You are just somebody coming out of nowhere making claims that we really ultimately can't prove.

David Grusch (00:11:24):

Yeah, well we provided the proof internally to the inspector general and [00:11:30] the Hill staff. We went into all the details. I mean, I have the credentials. I was an intelligence officer on the UAP task force,

Ross Coulthart (00:11:38):

But let's face it, allegations of aliens and their spacecraft are hard to accept even coming from a respected insider, even if you call them NHI and UAP, how could such NHI travel to earth in the first place and go undetected by the general public? Grush says the craft [00:12:00] may not be traveling through space as we understand it.

David Grusch (00:12:04):

It is a well established fact, at least mathematically and based on empirical observation in analysis that there most likely are physical, additional spatial dimensions and you could imagine on four and five D space where what we experience as linear time ends up being a physical dimension in higher dimensional space where if you were living there you could translate across what we perceive as a linear flow. [00:12:30] So there is a possibility that, and this is a theory here, I'm not saying this is a hundred percent the case, but it could be that this is not necessarily extraterrestrial and it's actually coming from a higher dimensional physical space that might be co-located right here.

Ross Coulthart (00:12:53):

What can you tell me about these craft, these technologies? Why do you know It's exotic?

David Grusch (00:12:59):

Based [00:13:00] on the very specific properties that I was briefed on, isotopic ratios that would have to be engineered for it to be at those levels, but also just extremely strange heavy atomic metal high up in the periodic table arrangements that we don't understand what the emergent properties are, but there's just a very strange mix of elements.

Ross Coulthart (00:13:29):

So you are absolutely [00:13:30] sure that the materials that these craft are made of are clearly not of this earth.

David Grusch (00:13:38):

Yeah, they're sophisticated, engineered, certainly not by humans

Ross Coulthart (00:13:42):

And while Grush says the US has gleaned some insight from these materials for military use, so much more could be done if academia and the private sector had access.

David Grusch (00:13:55):

It's totally nuts that humanity [00:14:00] as a whole, especially the US citizenry as a whole, they're not even benefiting from broad research on this to solve propulsion, energy issues, novel material science that can prove people's quality of life. It's just totally nuts how it's been protected and inhibits progress.

Ross Coulthart (00:14:20):

If you are right, if you are telling us the truth, everyone, the entire American public has been lied to for decades.

David Grusch (00:14:29):

Yeah, [00:14:30] there's a sophisticated disinformation campaign targeting the US populace, which is extremely unethical and immoral

Ross Coulthart (00:14:37):

Coming up. How long has this been going on?

David Grusch (00:14:41):

A lot of the things that was briefed on were very shocking.

Ross Coulthart (00:14:56):

So let's start from the very beginning. [00:15:00] You say it's a 90 year coverup

David Grusch (00:15:04):

Just about Yeah.

Ross Coulthart (00:15:05):

90 Years,

David Grusch (00:15:06):

1933 was the first recovery in Europe in magenta Italy. They recovered a partially intact vehicle.

Ross Coulthart (00:15:15):

It's long been known that the regime of dictator Benito Mussolini documented numerous UAP during this time. This internal memo from the Italian secret services includes crude [00:15:30] drawings of the UAPs. It's true. It's real.

David Grusch (00:15:34):

Yeah. That actually happened. Italian government moved it to a secure air base in Italy for the rest of the fascist regime until 19 44, 19 45 and the Pope Pius the 12th back channeled that.

Ross Coulthart (00:15:48):

So The Vatican was involved

David Grusch (00:15:49):

Yeah And told the Americans what the Italians had and we ended up scooping it.

Ross Coulthart (00:15:53):

So let me be very clear about this. You are saying that the Catholic church, the Vatican, they know about the existence [00:16:00] of non-human intelligence on this planet.

David Grusch (00:16:02):

Certainly

Ross Coulthart (00:16:04):

Grush says shortly after the dawn of the Atomic age, another major crash recovery took place. You've probably heard of it. What can you tell me about the Roswell craft?

David Grusch (00:16:17):

Fortunately, those details were not approved for me to talk about right now

Ross Coulthart (00:16:23):

This much we know In 1947, an object crashed in the New Mexico desert near the town of [00:16:30] Roswell. The Air Force recovered material described as metallic and rubbery. Though the government changed its story as to what it was calling it a flying disc at first, then a weather or spy balloon. It just read ridiculous to me that the US Air Force had changed its story

David Grusch (00:16:49):

And they added additional elements over time and tried to conflate additional programs to explain some of the events.

Ross Coulthart (00:16:57):

Why are these things crashing?

David Grusch (00:16:58):

Yeah, [00:17:00] some are landed, some are crashed, and I think that's an interesting discussion that's come up as advanced as we are as humans, right? Planes crash. Cars crash. Just because you're some advanced sentient that has advanced technology doesn't mean some small percentage of your, I'll use the Air Force term like sorties meet an unfortunate operational conclusion. As we might want to say.

Ross Coulthart (00:17:29):

Most people would [00:17:30] tell you the Roswell incident has been thoroughly debunked. In fact, the Air Force published this report in 1994 to put the issue to rest once and for all Grush has read it.

David Grusch (00:17:44):

That analysis they did was a total hack job and even anybody with analytical skills, if you read it, you can deduce that they're conflating multiple situations with crash test dummies and then Mogul balloons and they're just saying that the town folk [00:18:00] who personally witnessed it were totally imagining things. They concocted that whole report just to disinform.

Ross Coulthart (00:18:07):

So the reason for the secrecy exactly is what

David Grusch (00:18:12):

Feudalistic dominance. Who can have both asymmetric technology for it seems like just fuel in the war machine.

Ross Coulthart (00:18:21):

Grusch says that through the fifties and sixties, encounters with the NHI continued, as did the coverup. [00:18:30] One incident in 1967 about which multiple Air force veterans have gone public involved UAPs tampering with the nuclear missiles at Malmstrom Air Base in Montana. They saw a craft appearing to be intelligently controlled, hovered over a nuclear weapons silo and shut down 10 nuclear ICBM missiles.

David Grusch (00:18:55):

It certainly looks like they want to understand how far [00:19:00] we've advanced in our nuclear fissile kind of technologies. At the very least, I mean it looks like preparatory probing activity. It might be innocent kind of scientific gathering. Could be ISR probing.

Ross Coulthart (00:19:13):

Meanwhile, Grush says the crash retrieval program continued and while he won't reveal where the downed craft are stored, he does say that the people working with the technology have been putting themselves at risk.

David Grusch (00:19:28):

A lot of them were [00:19:30] injured looking at some of this stuff. You can imagine the nuclear radiological biological risk to looking at an unknown unknown, and a lot of them have literally suffered physically because of their service,

Ross Coulthart (00:19:44):

But as we know, anyone who's come forward claiming non-human intelligence is behind these incidents has been dismissed as delusional or deliberately deceitful. If you are right, if you are telling us the truth every everyone [00:20:00] the entire American public has been lied to for decades.

David Grusch (00:20:05):

Yeah, there's a sophisticated disinformation campaign targeting the US populace, which is extremely unethical and immoral.

Ross Coulthart (00:20:13):

Coming up the hundred 20 West, new evidence and perhaps new attitudes in a new age of UAPs, the American

Speaker 7 (00:20:21):

People need and deserve to know more.

Ross Coulthart (00:20:24):

Has the US government changed its tune? [00:20:30] These are the videos that started it all footage captured by naval aviators on military grade cameras that all prosaic explanation. Dave Grush has investigated this one shot in 2015 off the East coast by fighter pilots from the USS Theodore Roosevelt. [00:21:00] There is an industry of debunkers aren't there on the web who say, oh, they've got this all wrong. It's a jet exhaust at a distance and the aircraft's turning. Give me an answer

David Grusch (00:21:11):

Well, I had some optical engineering experts look at that and the Raytheon at FLIR system based on the pixel saturation and apparent size, it's certainly something that's not a jet. It might be some kind of natural phenomenon that's quite strange, but it's not as simple as a jet.

Ross Coulthart (00:21:28):

He has even stronger [00:21:30] opinions about this UAP now known to history as the tic-tac shot in 2004 in the Pacific by aviators off the USS Nimitz and the tic-tac

David Grusch (00:21:43):

Truly anomalous absolutely technical vehicle physical and that's absolutely something that we didn't make

Ross Coulthart (00:21:51):

Not of this world

David Grusch (00:21:52):

Most likely. Yeah,

Ross Coulthart (00:21:53):

The videos were leaked in 2017, then officially released by the Pentagon in 2020. [00:22:00] At the time it seemed the Pentagon may have finally abandoned its obsession with secrecy and decided to do what other countries have been doing for decades, establish a properly funded publicly accountable team to investigate reports of UAP. Dave Grush was part of that team. This

Sean Kirkpatrick (00:22:21):

Is a hunt mission for what might somebody be doing in our backyard that we don't know about.

Ross Coulthart (00:22:27):

The task force set about investigating these [00:22:30] incidents including more recent events like the odd encounters that took place during naval exercises in 2019 off the coast of San Diego. This video shot on the USS Omaha and later leaked to documentarian. Jeremy Corbell has received particular attention. It either zooms off so fast you can't see it or it sinks into the ocean, but it seems to drop. What do you know about it?

David Grusch (00:22:57):

It was truly anomalous,

Ross Coulthart (00:22:58):

But Grush says [00:23:00] the promised new age of government transparency is a fallacy. For starters, he says the videos that have been released are just the tip of the iceberg.

David Grusch (00:23:09):

There are many videos that are totally fair to release through a declassification process and I find it very concerning from a transparency perspective that all that the department has declassified were those three famous videos. There are more concerning videos that left me with a lot of questions.

Ross Coulthart (00:23:29):

He [00:23:30] says, there are credible witnesses who could testify to Congress about spacecraft, big spacecraft.

David Grusch (00:23:38):

A lot of them were very large, very large like a football field kind of size, and I remember interviewing these personnel, I'm like, either these people are lying to me. They're having a psychotic break or this is some crazy but true stuff that's happening and I have no good explanation that's prosaic at all for this because [00:24:00] this is not explainable by swamp gas, St. Elmo's, fire Ball, lightning, et cetera, et cetera. I mean this is like tangible technical craft. They're seeing up close and personal. In some cases when I interview people

Ross Coulthart (00:24:13):

And at the center of it all the crash retrieval program, the government has never publicly acknowledged a program Rush says that's included at least one private aerospace company that is storing alien craft. Is that true?

David Grusch (00:24:30):

[00:24:30] That is how a lot of these relationships are. Well, I don't want to name the specific companies and government elements, but overall the government has been the custodian of a lot of this and they'll hand receipt it out to a clear defense contractor to do some analysis, which I find highly unethical. You have basically a sole source arrangement and you allow certain private corporate elements to look at this, develop [00:25:00] a potential insight and then sell it back to the government for profit. And I think that's totally unethical.

Ross Coulthart (00:25:06):

The problem you've got is there have been categorical denials from high level officials in the US government, even presidents that what you're saying is true.

David Grusch (00:25:17):

Unfortunately, some elected officials were not brought in

Ross Coulthart (00:25:20):

Only a few weeks ago, 19th of April, the head of the Pentagon's UAP investigations program, Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick [00:25:30] told Congress AARO, that's the Pentagon's UFO investigation body has found no credible evidence thus far of extraterrestrial activity off world technology or objects that defy the known laws of physics.

Sean Kirkpatrick (00:25:48):

While a large number of cases in our holdings remain technically unresolved, this is primarily due to a lack of data associated with those cases.

Ross Coulthart (00:25:57):

Was that a lie?

David Grusch (00:25:59):

Well, I [00:26:00] know Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick. I've known him for about eight years and I expressed some concerns to Dr. Kirkpatrick about a year ago and told him what I was starting to uncover and he didn't follow up with me and he has my phone number. He could have called me. I hope he ultimately does the right thing. He should be able to make the same investigative discoveries I did. It's totally crazy if he doesn't.

Ross Coulthart (00:26:25):

So the implication here is that the head of the very body [00:26:30] that Congress has ordered to tell the American public the truth about UAPs is possibly misleading the American public. Do you think the American public is being lied to?

David Grusch (00:26:43):

Well, they've been lied to over the years and I'm hoping that the lies stop

Ross Coulthart (00:26:49):

Coming up. It gets even scarier. The UFO whistleblower says the NHIS aren't all friendly, have human beings [00:27:00] being hurt or killed by a non-human intelligence and guess who they might be working with.

David Grusch (00:27:09):

We're in a competition with their adversaries to understand this and it's a multi-decade Cold war that has been under our nose for so long.

Speaker 8 (00:27:25):

News Nation refers to the audience. It's not about the group. Think of an [00:27:30] organization the more it seems that we talk about allowing people to be critical, independent thinkers not owned by a team or a tribe. That's why News Nation is getting traction,

Speaker 9 (00:27:40):

Still have questions about UFOs. Stay tuned as news nation's. Brian Enton hosts a live wrap up right after the special report with exclusive behind the scenes insight from the interview skeptic or believer. We have multiple expert panels covering every angle next on News Nation

Ross Coulthart (00:28:00):

[00:28:00] In the movies. The aliens are often portrayed as peaceful, even cuddly

Speaker 10 (00:28:10):

Be right here.

Ross Coulthart (00:28:14):

It would be nice if that were true, but Mr. Grush says it's not. The common interpretation from some commentators is that there is a non-human species and it's incredibly benevolently, well disposed to the human race

David Grusch (00:28:30):

[00:28:30] And I think that is the logical fallacy there is because they're advanced, they're kind. We'll never really understand full intent in that because we're not them, whatever them is or are. But I think what appears to be malevolent activity has happened based on not only nuclear site probing activities, witness testimony. I think at least if we look at it through a humanistic lens, [00:29:00] it does appear negative at least to us.

Ross Coulthart (00:29:04):

I've been told that there have been attempts to bring down craft that we've acted offensively against non-human craft.

David Grusch (00:29:14):

There have been instances and there are certain techniques,

Ross Coulthart (00:29:18):

Have human beings been hurt or killed by a non-human intelligence.

David Grusch (00:29:26):

While I can't get into the specifics because that would reveal certain US [00:29:30] classified operations, I was briefed by a few individuals on the program that there were malevolent events like that.

Ross Coulthart (00:29:38):

Now I'm scared people have just heard you say non-humans may well have murdered human beings.

David Grusch (00:29:49):

That seems to be the case at one point. Yeah,

Ross Coulthart (00:29:53):

And there's more. Grush says the United States is not the only country that's encountered NHI [00:30:00] and their technology. He says our geopolitical rivals have their own crash retrieval programs, which they are also secretly exploiting for military purposes.

David Grusch (00:30:12):

We're in a competition with their adversaries to understand this and it's a multi-decade cold war that has been under our nose for so long and there is no good way to level the playing field and hold other nation states accountable if they're doing unethical or illicit [00:30:30] activity as it relates to the subject. And I think the up two secrecy is actually putting us in a very dangerous position where a country might make a breakthrough. Let's say it's an adversary of ours and it is so destabilizing.

Ross Coulthart (00:30:49):

You say there's been a cold war behind the scenes with Russia and China.

David Grusch (00:30:54):

There has been a cold war with our pure adversaries. Yeah.

Ross Coulthart (00:31:00):

[00:31:00] Why hasn't Russia or China come out and spoken publicly about this?

David Grusch (00:31:05):

I think they're in a similar pickle as us where they understand maybe some of the socioeconomic destabilization factors in their own society, but

Ross Coulthart (00:31:13):

If this non-human intelligence is so advanced and at least some of them are malevolent, why haven't they destroyed us already? Perhaps some fragile yet combustible Deante has been reached, Grush has written an internal document about his [00:31:30] discoveries that refers to agreements that risk putting our future in jeopardy, and it's quite clear that you are talking about agreements between America and non-human intelligences. Have we made agreements with non-human intelligences?

David Grusch (00:31:51):

That's the kind of information I really hope national leadership is able to get to the bottom of.

Ross Coulthart (00:31:56):

I need to pin you down on this. Are there agreements between non-human intelligences [00:32:00] and the American government?

David Grusch (00:32:02):

I think that's a question that I would like to know all the details of as well.

Ross Coulthart (00:32:09):

We do know of at least one agreement among humans that's worth noting this 1971 agreement between the US and the USSR on measures to reduce the risk of nuclear war. Whether or not you believe Dave Grush, this document proves the two superpowers. Were aware that [00:32:30] UAP existed whatever they were.

David Grusch (00:32:34):

If you look at article three of that treaty, it talks about unidentified objects near nuclear facilities are interfering with communications and that is a treaty that has been used from what I understand to notify each other if there's a concerning event.

Ross Coulthart (00:32:52):

And that's a way of saying to the Russians, Hey, don't shoot at us. It's not us.

David Grusch (00:32:55):

Yeah, I mean that's certainly a concern because of the secrecy. There is an [00:33:00] environment where you could have almost like a false flag where true non prosaic UAP situation could be strived as a provocation of something from a nation state. And we want to deescalate that.

Ross Coulthart (00:33:16):

If this is true, if the stakes are so high, if the fate of the human race is at stake, perhaps it's no surprise to hear grush say the US government will do anything to keep these [00:33:30] secrets safe. Can I put it to you that crimes must have been committed

David Grusch (00:33:35):

At the very least I saw substative evidence that white collar crime was committed.

Ross Coulthart (00:33:40):

Have people been killed to protect this secret?

David Grusch (00:33:45):

Based on the people I talked to, that was an ongoing concern. Yeah, unfortunately I've heard some really un-American things I don't want to repeat right now.

Ross Coulthart (00:33:54):

So you have a strong suspicion that people have been murdered to protect the

David Grusch (00:33:59):

Over the years, yeah.

Ross Coulthart (00:34:00):

[00:34:00] Coming up a reality check, is it possible that you are deluding yourself? It's time to put our whistleblower's credibility to the test. Everybody watching this right now is looking at your face. They're going, is this guy for real? Let's talk about what Dave Grush doesn't have. He doesn't have smoking [00:34:30] gun documents or photos. He doesn't have official confirmation of his claims. He's just a guy talking on camera and a lot of his answers to our most pointed questions sound like this. Can you comment?

David Grusch (00:34:44):

Unfortunately I cannot.

Ross Coulthart (00:34:46):

So who is this guy? Really?

David Grusch (00:34:49):

I don't want fame or fortune. I'm just here to provide public leadership on an issue that I uncovered and I thought it was totally outrageous.

Ross Coulthart (00:34:57):

News Nation has confirmed through multiple [00:35:00] sources that Dave Grush is who he says he is an Air Force veteran from Pittsburgh who worked in military intelligence and was part of the UAP task force. Maybe he's just a confident ex-military intelligence officer who just happens to have lost his mind. Do you have any kind of mental illness?

David Grusch (00:35:23):

No.

Ross Coulthart (00:35:25):

Have you ever had a psychosis,

David Grusch (00:35:27):

No.

Ross Coulthart (00:35:29):

Is there anything in [00:35:30] your medical history that might be capable of being interpreted as a reason why you might be confabulating making things up?

David Grusch (00:35:38):

No, I'm not a disgruntled employee. I resigned on my own accord because I thought altruistically, it's more appropriate to show thought leadership on the outside on this. Now I hit an impasse within the government to try to write this wrong.

Ross Coulthart (00:35:51):

So I've got to be blunt about this. You're not making this up. This is not a lie.

David Grusch (00:35:55):

No, absolutely not.

Ross Coulthart (00:35:58):

Because everybody watching [00:36:00] this right now is looking at your face. They're going, is this guy for real?

David Grusch (00:36:06):

I am for real. And I am sitting here at great personal risk and obvious professional risk by talking to you today day

Ross Coulthart (00:36:15):

You've told us that we really are not alone. Even though you believe what you say is true, you haven't been fed disinformation. It's a common thing in intelligence for governments to mislead.

David Grusch (00:36:30):

[00:36:30] Yeah, I was very sensitive to that fact. Was this some kind of ruse against me? Am I being used in any kind of way? And I took about four years being very methodical before I filed my whistleblower complaint to be absolutely certain of these basic facts.

Ross Coulthart (00:36:47):

So take me through the process of how you convinced yourself that this is real.

David Grusch (00:36:54):

Well, based on the credential people that came to me, some of these subjects provided me sensitive foreign intelligence [00:37:00] to read sensitive program documents and photographs to evaluate and then described in very specific detail how all this worked and they were telling me the exact extremely specific details that it all checked out. Yeah,

Ross Coulthart (00:37:19):

The thing I have trouble with, it's the fact that my experience as a journalist is it's very hard for governments to keep secrets. Most things leak. [00:37:30] Your government leaks like a sieve. Why hasn't this leaked?

David Grusch (00:37:34):

Well, I've certainly been the recipient of a lot of US government secrets and I can tell you they've never seen the light of day. That's for sure. And I guess ostensibly this has leaked like a sieve for decades, but it was a very sophisticated disinformation campaign where they have allowed some of the truth to come out through some of their trade crafts, but they've disenfranchised people, they've stigmatized it. They made [00:38:00] it as this total wacky thing to talk about. So anybody who may come forward with that kind of information is looked like a total tinfoil hot guy because it's a perfect amalgamation of disinformation to just make it look crazy.

Ross Coulthart (00:38:17):

The best reason to believe Dave Grush may be this document. Remember that whistleblower complaint he filed? It would seem it hasn't fallen on deaf ears. So the Inspector General of [00:38:30] the Intelligence services of the United States has the information you've got.

David Grusch (00:38:34):

Yes.

Ross Coulthart (00:38:36):

And more importantly, the Inspector General made a determination about the credibility of your complaint.

David Grusch (00:38:42):

They found after interviewing myself and the subjects and other subjects that I'm not even cognizant on who they were. They found my complaint urgent and credible for the intelligence committees,

Ross Coulthart (00:38:55):

The word credible is important. You appreciate. So an official investigatory [00:39:00] body of the United States government has determined that your allegations are credible.

David Grusch (00:39:05):

Correct

Ross Coulthart (00:39:07):

Coming up. If it is true, then what are we going to do if the biggest secret on the planet is now out in the open and what are they going to do? How will the non-human intelligence react?

Speaker 9 (00:39:28):

Still have questions about UFOs? [00:39:30] Stay tuned as News Nation's Brianon hosts a live wrap up right after the special report with exclusive behind the scenes insight from the interview, skeptic or believer. We have multiple expert panels covering every angle. Next on News Nation,

Speaker 11 (00:39:43):

The partisan extremes do trust their news sources. People are going to watch them and say yes, stick it to 'em. Then they're the rest of us who want to evaluate things issue by issue, story by story on News nation. That's what we're doing.

Ross Coulthart (00:40:00):

[00:40:00] This is one of the gravest constitutional crises for your country ever.

David Grusch (00:40:11):

Absolutely.

Ross Coulthart (00:40:11):

Give me some hope here. There are good people.

David Grusch (00:40:14):

There are very good people, and I want that message to be crystal clear, let's not demonize holistically the US government. There's a whole army of people that want change. I am one of tens if not hundreds of individuals within the government [00:40:30] on these programs. That would like a change.

Ross Coulthart (00:40:32):

What kind of change does David Grush want? As he said here tonight, he wants the NHI technology to be shared so the rest of the world can benefit from it.

David Grusch (00:40:43):

And I use nuclear weapons or nuclear physics as an example. It's an acknowledged program. We have nuclear weapons. You don't get to know the designs, but nuclear physics holistically is unclassified. Academia studies it. And why would you suppress basic [00:41:00] astrophysics, astrobiology other hard and soft sciences broadly? It's totally nuts.

Ross Coulthart (00:41:06):

Grush has left the government. He wasn't part of RO during the most recent congressional hearings when still more UAP were revealed, including this one captured by a drone in the Middle East in 2022. There it goes. His whistleblower case will take months to conclude. In the meantime, he says he's starting a scientific [00:41:30] foundation and he's willing to speak anyone in Washington who has the clearance and the desire to hear the classified information he could not share. Here

David Grusch (00:41:41):

I make myself available to Secretary Austin, DNI Haynes, who was a recipient of my complaints. I'm happy to further brief elected officials on the specific ecosystem of secrecy down to the fine details,

Ross Coulthart (00:41:56):

Whoever they are. How will the non-human [00:42:00] intelligence react to the revelation that human beings now know they're here?

David Grusch (00:42:07):

Yeah, I mean obviously the non-human intelligences have been around for a while, at least multiple decades in modern history and they've allowed ourselves to annihilate ourselves, genocide, war, famine, et cetera. So at the very least, I think they're kind of neutral on what humans decide to do with their free will.

Ross Coulthart (00:42:24):

And as for how the human race will react to his story here, gr evens [00:42:30] that quintessentially human characteristic optimism. I

David Grusch (00:42:34):

Don't have this utopian ideology that this is going to solve world problems stop war entirely. But all I want is a moment of pause and to see if the subject unites us as we've obviously become more divided over the last couple of decades.

Ross Coulthart (00:42:49):

Because if anything else, what you are revealing may mean we all start thinking of ourselves not as American, Australian, Russian, Chinese, but as [00:43:00] human,

David Grusch (00:43:01):

Human family. I think that's totally the right term. Yeah.

Speaker 12 (00:43:16):

Wow. Okay, so now we are going to attempt to process this all together. Hey everybody, I'm Brian Enton. I'm live at the News Nation headquarters in Chicago. Whether you are a UFO believer, a skeptic or someone somewhere in [00:43:30] the middle, which I think is most of us, we know that that conversation with the UFO whistleblower, it was a lot to take in. So for the next hour we're going to digest it all together. We've got military officials who say that they have seen unidentified aerial phenomena joining us live. They're going to be with us Also, you're going to hear from lawmakers who are taking whistleblower. David Gus's claim. Seriously everything that you just heard, this is now going to result in a congressional hearing. Congresspeople say there will be a hearing over all of this. And the very [00:44:00] credible reporter who broke the story tells us about other sources that she has who she says back up Grush and everything that he said. But we want to start tonight with the journalist who sat with David Grush for hours. Ross Coltart. He joins us live Now. Ross, incredible interview. We checked into David Gus's credentials. We did our own due diligence here at News Nation. All of his credentials stack up, but there's nothing like actually sitting down with [00:44:30] someone looking them in the eye for hours face-to-face to really get a read on them. Why do you say that David Grush is so believable here?

Ross Coulthart (00:44:42):

Look, the most persuasive thing for me is the simple fact that I was introduced to Mr. Grush by people who told me about him from within the Legacy UAP Crash Retrieval program. I wrote a book about this subject a couple of years ago and because of the context [00:45:00] that I made in the course of researching that book, I became aware of the existence of the Crash retrieval program and I became aware of the existence of Mr. Grush who was basically conducting his investigations for the UAP task force. I've known about him for some time and many people have vast for his credibility and indeed I've heard nothing but good about him.

Speaker 12 (00:45:24):

The number one thing that I've heard, Ross, my friends, have been texting me for the last hour. First of all, they've been riveted by your interview, [00:45:30] but most of my friends have texted me, look, I'm skeptical because I want to see proof. I'm going to remain skeptical until I can actually see some evidence of this.

Ross Coulthart (00:45:43):

I can assure you and your viewers, Mr. Grush wants you to see the proof that he has seen. The difficulty is that the crazy thing about Arrow, which is the current investigative body that is supposedly charged with investigating [00:46:00] the phenomenon is that the Congress has mandated that the public get to know the truth, but the Pentagon has muted the very body that it's trusted to do these investigations. It doesn't have the Title 50 classified information access that Mr. Grush had because of Mr. Rush's extraordinarily high security classification. He was allowed to see, hear, and read things and talk to people [00:46:30] who Congress isn't even allowed to talk to and who members of aro, the Pentagon's supposed UFO investigation body aren't allowed to talk to. And so he wants you all to see that evidence. And so that's the reason why he's gone to the Inspector General with his reprisal complaint who referred him on to the Congress and he's given evidence detailing all of that information to the extent that he can to those confidential committees in [00:47:00] secret hearings, the Senate Intelligence Committee and the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. And it's that information that he now wants brought out hopefully in an open, transparent public hearing.

Speaker 12 (00:47:13):

It's a good point. You make that arrow the All domain anomaly Resolution office. They're the ones who are supposed to be investigating the UFOs. He claims they don't even have the information that they need. They don't even really know what's going on. But I've got to ask you, I mean you've been studying this [00:47:30] stuff for a long time. Do you believe everything that he said? Because I kind of walked away from it thinking some of it I found to be believable, other parts I felt more skeptical of. Do you think everything he says is truth? I

Ross Coulthart (00:47:46):

Look, it's ultimately impossible for you and me to test his claims. What he wants is for his claims to be tested. He wants us to be skeptical. The reason he's come forward [00:48:00] is because he's frustrated that what's happening at the moment is the Pentagon frankly is engineering a coverup. It's lying to the American public. I can say that because I'm an Australian. Throw me in jail if you like. But the simple fact is your Pentagon, your Department of Defense is lying to you. And I know that because I've spoken to people in the program who tell me that what Mr. Grush is telling you is the truth. And the huge frustration that he and indeed some of his own colleagues who are still [00:48:30] in aro feel is that you, the American public, deserve the truth. Now the thing that I really respect and admire, I trained as a lawyer, as a younger man, and I love and respect the American Constitution.

(00:48:44):

You have it's transparency and accountability controls in your Congress that are absolutely magnificent. And people like Dave Grush, he's only one of an enormous number of people who've now come forward and indicated their willingness to give evidence [00:49:00] to the Congress. They've given evidence in secret to those committees in the Congress. The Congress already has this information. There are members of your so-called Gang of eight, the people who are entrusted in your Congress with the most sensitive secrets, who I know know what Mr. Grush is telling them. And it's incumbent on the American public to demand of your government not the secrets of how this technology [00:49:30] works. I can understand why you might want to keep that confidential. I'm told that the technology that is represented by these devices is a dreadful weapon. It could do terrible things. It could destroy the planet. So I can see the need to classify that aspect of it. But I think the fact that there's been an 80 to 90 year coverup that has concealed not just from the American public but from the world, the existence of these craft, the existence of [00:50:00] multiple species, of non-human intelligence. And moreover, the most important thing, the technologies. I've spoken to people in the legacy program who have told me it's getting nowhere. They're not getting the scientific advancements they want even though they have this technology in front of them because they don't have the ability to share this information with other scientists. That's the key issue.

Speaker 12 (00:50:24):

It's just so much. Look, I get that this is, you have done for a long time and you know the ins and outs [00:50:30] for people on the outside. It's so much for us to take in. I was just thinking about 20 years ago, you were thought to be kind of crazy if you talked about UFOs. The government said there was no program at all. It wasn't really until 2020 that they opened up and said they did have a secret program all those years looking into things, even released some videos. Earlier this week, Ross, I interviewed Leslie Kane, a very respected journalist, broke some of those stories in the New York Times back in 2020 about that secret government program [00:51:00] also broke this story involving the whistleblower, David Grush. She says much like you that she has other sources too. Sources who don't even know David Grush, who back up what he says. I want you to listen to what she said and we'll talk about it afterwards.

Speaker 13 (00:51:17):

I believe it because of all the sources I have who have told me the same thing. So who am I to doubt these very, very high level people who have been inside these programs for decades have done their work and [00:51:30] are all telling me the same thing. I don't think there's some kind of conspiracy among all these people who don't know each other to make something like this up.

Speaker 12 (00:51:38):

Something else I think is significant is that David Grush, the whistleblower's attorney who represented him through this process is the former inspector General to the intelligence community. So would he really take on a case like this with his reputation if he didn't believe it to be true? I think that's an important side [00:52:00] to all of this. But in terms of what Leslie said, Ross, do you also have sources totally separate from Grush who back up what he said?

Ross Coulthart (00:52:11):

Absolutely. Absolutely. In fact, I was first introduced to the existence of the crash retrieval program by a man, a great American called NATOs, who was the former head of research and development, the chief geek, if you like, for the US Navy. And Nat, God bless him, was dying [00:52:30] from cancer. But he made a decision very close towards his end to tell me the truth. And I put part of that into my book, but I didn't reveal the full extent of what I was told. I was introduced by Nat to people who led me to other people who were working in the legacy program. And that's why I'm so sure that this is real. And it's why I'm so disappointed that the oversight controls in your Congress don't appear to have worked because incredibly [00:53:00] the scientists say they don't think that the Congress, even the presidents have always been told the truth about this.

(00:53:08):

That's the thing that concerns them, that there's been this secret program going on funded by you, the US taxpayer at enormous expense. And yet the whole thing has been kept secret from most people in the Congress, particularly from the oversight committees that actually have the right and the responsibility to know about programs like this. [00:53:30] And I know for a fact presidents have been denied. Presidents have been denied briefings on this stuff. And I guess as somebody who's legally trained, I just think that's appalling. It represents a breakdown in the accountability controls in your government. People have exceeded their authority. And I'll tell you one thing that really shocked me. One person in the program told me that they refer to the president, the president of the United States is not briefed in most cases into the program because he [00:54:00] is quote, a temporary employee. The arrogance of these people is palpable. That's what shocks me. There are a cadra of people who have taken it upon themselves to keep a secret for no good reason. The public have a right to know that people are engaging with a non-human intelligence on this planet. Let me

Speaker 12 (00:54:22):

Ask you this, Ross, sorry to interrupt you, but when David Grush talked about quite a number, that was his [00:54:30] quote, quite a number of these non-human craft that exist out there that are in storage, were you able to nail him down on that anymore? I mean, is it a couple? Are there dozens? Do we know what he meant?

Ross Coulthart (00:54:46):

Look, I have a very good idea of how many there are, but David in the interview with me explained that he doesn't want the public to know yet because he doesn't want our adversaries to know. He doesn't want the Russians or the Chinese to know too much about how [00:55:00] advanced the Americans are in terms of what they've been able to recover. And that's because I know from my own sources, the Russians particularly, but probably also the Chinese, have also recovered non-human technology. What's been going on, Brian is a secret Cold War, a battle between the great powers to gain control of this technology and to master it. And the terrible thing is, if you think about the fact that your president controls a technology [00:55:30] that can literally destroy the planet nuclear weapons, and we, we've known that these UAPs are interfering with these nuclear sites. There's a great book about this by a friend of mine, Robert Hastings. But the thing that really does worry me is that there's a real risk if the public don't know this, if military commanders don't know this, there's a real risk of an escalation where a UAP is confused for an enemy attack and we end up with [00:56:00] a situation where nuclear missiles are launched by mistake. Yeah,

Speaker 12 (00:56:03):

Listen, I hear what you're saying, but when you talk about a Cold War and secret non-human craft in multiple countries, again, it's hard to wrap your mind around and to think that something like that could really remain a secret all of this time with social media and camera phones and everyone pretty much everything these days. Ross, stay there. We're going to keep you part of the conversation. I want to bring in two people who say they've actually seen [00:56:30] UAP essentially UFOs firsthand. We've all seen it in the video to the Pentagon, shared it publicly. Sean Cahill is a former Navy chief who saw the so-called Tic-Tac in 2004. And Alex Dietrich is a retired Navy lieutenant commander who also saw the tic-tac. That video is unbelievable. It's really an honor to have both of you with us tonight. First of all, I want to ask you, Alex, first, what did you make of David Gus's story? I know you've seen the interview. [00:57:00] Do you find it believable?

Speaker 14 (00:57:05):

There's a lot to unpack there. I'm not familiar with the sources that he's referring to. I am certainly not familiar with the hard evidence, the data or any physical evidence that he referred to there. But what I do know is that I saw something strange in 2004, November 14th, 2004. It's been referred to as the Nimitz encounter [00:57:30] or the tic-tac incident. And when we reported it at the time and in years since even today, it's my understanding that aircrew operators, folks who see something, don't have a good protocol, they don't have a good process to report it. So you ride the subway and you see a billboard that says if you see something, say something, there's an easy way to report a suspicious package. But if you're seeing something [00:58:00] in the sky that doesn't make sense, looks out of place, especially around a military exercise or near a civilian city, city center, especially with the events of nine 11 still so fresh in our hearts and our minds, we need to have a protocol in place. We need to have folks who are dedicated and a system to report these and analyze these unidentified phenomenon.

Speaker 12 (00:58:26):

And that seems to be the bigger issue here, regardless of whether you're a skeptic or [00:58:30] a believer, the problem here seems to be that we don't have a system, a good, real honest system where people can come forward who are in the military and actually report things and not to be made to look crazy and that kind of thing. Sean, I have to ask you, when you first saw the tic-tac along with a number of other people in the area and who were on the ship, I mean, did people take you seriously? Did you feel like you were being made fun of or [00:59:00] did you feel like the military was open to hearing what you guys actually saw

Speaker 15 (00:59:05):

During the week of that exercise? We took it very seriously. There was no real ridicule on board until after the fact when we were all trying to figure out what had happened. That was when we were making jokes and making light of the situation. But during the situation, we took it very seriously because there was an unknown aircraft in the vicinity of our battle group. I have to say that I cannot say was assurance that what I saw was the same thing that [00:59:30] Commander Fravor or Commander Dietrich saw. I saw five to seven lights in the sky move in a pattern that I'd never seen before. Throughout that point, decade of my career and now 20 years worth, that seems commensurate with UAP. But I can say that this is something I've followed for the last five years, since the 2017 article came out, and I've worked diligently at it, usually 24 7. As we say, this is a very present phenomenon now. It is not just that strange thing [01:00:00] that I saw in the sky one time.

Speaker 12 (01:00:02):

I think the difference here though, Ross, is when Sean and Alex talk about what they saw, we've got the video to back it up and we've now got accounts from a number of people in the military who saw the very, very same thing. So it's easy to accept that. It's hard to go from seeing this video and saying, okay, this is not explainable and clearly is something strange going on to we have these crafts in our possession. We have bodies. [01:00:30] There is a secret Cold war. I just think it's hard to make that leap for Americans when there's no hard evidence when we can't see video or pictures.

Ross Coulthart (01:00:42):

I completely agree with you, and I think that's why Mr. Grush is saying that people need to get Congress to hold the hearings where this evidence can be brought to light. He's not expecting people to believe him straight off. Frankly, he's hoping that people will be skeptical. But what he's hoping, and what I think a [01:01:00] lot of people are hoping is that Congress will suddenly find the courage to start demanding answers. Because I know evidence has been presented to Senate committees particularly, and I know that there's been meetings in the Congress attended by senators where information has been discussed relating to the crash retrieval program. And I also, by the way, have information that suggests the National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan, [01:01:30] attended at least one of these meetings. So I think the president probably, or at least his most senior advisor does know. And we're in a situation now where it's incumbent on the Congress and the President to be open about the fact that it doesn't appear to be forthcoming with that evidence.

(01:01:50):

So what needs to happen, I think is for there to be a public push. And I think also engagement by the media. There's been [01:02:00] a terrible failure of the media here where they've accepted the disinformation line that's been put by the different intelligence services that have tried to shut this issue down. And there's been a lamentable failure of investigative media. I mean, when I started doing my book, I expected to the phenomenon, I thought I was going to find a black project, some kind of secret project in working with high tech Aerospace, and it turned out it wasn't American [01:02:30] technology or Russian or Chinese. It was something else. And the simple fact is media could have done those same inquiries and reached the same conclusion

Speaker 12 (01:02:41):

I have. I think this is a proud moment for News Nation too, because you don't see this kind of reporting, I don't think, on the mainstream media. You've got the sort of spooky sci-fi shows with the crazy graphics that do the UFO stories, but you don't see real hard [01:03:00] journalism questioning the situation, but being fair throughout. So I think this is really a moment for News Nation that we're standing out because you just don't see other mainstream media taking this on. Sean Cahill, Alex Dietrich, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. Ross, stick around because we're going to keep you where you are. The Pentagon says they can't verify Rush's claims that the government is hiding non-human vehicles, but Congress says it will investigate [01:03:30] and we are going to hear from the lawmaker who plans to lead that effort that's coming up right after this.

Speaker 8 (01:03:44):

That's for you to decide, but you should know the facts. I'm not looking to tell people what to believe or what to think. I am here to tell you to think

Speaker 9 (01:03:53):

Cuomo,

Speaker 8 (01:03:54):

Boy, I hesitate to say this, but I agree with Chris Cuomo. You don't have to like the outcomes, but we have to trust [01:04:00] the outcomes. Let's talk about all

Speaker 16 (01:04:02):

Of it. This is the most in-depth and actually thoughtful conversation on this topic I've

Speaker 8 (01:04:05):

Ever had. So what do you think that it weigh it be a free agent?

Speaker 9 (01:04:10):

Cuomo Weeknights at eight seven Central on News Nation.

Speaker 12 (01:04:16):

Alright, welcome back to this News Nation Live special where we are processing together what we heard from the UFO whistleblower, David Grush, who claims the US government has a secret crash retrieval program and even has non-human crafts [01:04:30] in its possession. I want to talk to my colleague Joe Kil now in Washington. He has literally been chasing down lawmakers all week for reaction. Joe, tell me, what's your feeling? Because I've seen you walk in the halls of Congress every day, literally chasing some of these guys down. Do you get the feeling that they're taking what David Gus is saying? Seriously?

Speaker 17 (01:04:49):

I do. Brian. I mean, there's certainly curiosity and look, the claims that he has made are very serious, right? The Pentagon right away came out and sort of denied it, saying that there is no verifiable information [01:05:00] to back up his claims. But when I was talking to lawmakers this week on Capitol Hill, and we've talked to dozens of them, the sense that I got is there is a serious curiosity about this. A lot of them were fascinated. Many of them say that they want to learn more, and certainly they believe this is a topic worth the allegations about a secret government program to recover UFO crash debris hidden from the public and from Congress has prompted lawmakers [01:05:30] into action. This week we

Speaker 18 (01:05:31):

Plan on having a hearing pertaining to that whole issue,

Speaker 17 (01:05:35):

The Chairman of the Powerful House Oversight Committee, Jim Comer, confirming first to News Nation that his committee will investigate whistleblower. David Gross's claims Mr. Grosch alleging the government possesses multiple craft of non-human origin. We've got

Speaker 19 (01:05:51):

Something in our airspace that our military does not control.

Speaker 17 (01:05:56):

Congressman Tim Burett will lead the planned hearing. He points out the [01:06:00] US military pilots have been reporting UAP encounters for years and the congressman alleges military intelligence has not been forthcoming with Congress about those interactions

Speaker 19 (01:06:12):

Define our laws of

Speaker 17 (01:06:13):

Physics. And while there's wide agreement in Congress that G'S claims are worthy of looking into, many are skeptical. Like former astronaut and Navy captain, Senator Mark Kelly, he tells News Nation, he has trouble accepting that the military would mislead Congress in the way that [01:06:30] GR alleges. I haven't

Speaker 20 (01:06:31):

Seen any reasons to believe that they're not forthcoming.

Speaker 17 (01:06:37):

And Brian, we included Senator Kelly in there because I did want to get that aspect of it. Certainly there are lawmakers who are skeptical, but many more. The large reaction that I got was that people want to learn more and one of the reactions we got was from Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, who she's going to be one of two lawmakers along with Tim Chet, who you heard in that piece, who's going to be leading these hearings. And she sent [01:07:00] us a statement, I'll sort of sum it up, where she basically says, for years Americans have been curious about UAPs, but for the most part, the default government position has been to leave the public in the dark. So she says she's certainly looking forward to having these hearings and shining some serious light on a lot of these questions. Brian,

Speaker 12 (01:07:18):

And it does appear to be a bipartisan effort at this point. Joe, with the lawmakers who you have spoken to, have you gotten a sense whether any of them have had any sort of classified briefings [01:07:30] or may know more about David Grush and his claims than what they're actually letting on?

Speaker 17 (01:07:37):

It's my sense that many lawmakers are just as much in the dark as the general public is, with the exception maybe of a small handful just from the reactions I was getting. Again, a lot of them really fascinated by Rush's comments and by his claims and the fact that they had that posture led me to believe that many of them just want to know what the rest of the public [01:08:00] wants to know about this. So it was truly a sense that I think they are curious and that's why they're pursuing these hearings, which again, we know are going to happen eventually.

Speaker 12 (01:08:09):

I want to bring Ross Cold Hart back in. He of course is the journalist who did the interview with David Resh. Ross been working on these sort of stories for a long time. 2020 was a big moment when the US government came clean with the program released those videos released that Tic-TAC video, which we were just talking about, which was a big deal at the time. [01:08:30] Do you feel Ross like this is a moment we're in now. Do you think this is going to make it onto the timeline that we are going to learn more, that more whistleblowers will come forward?

Ross Coulthart (01:08:43):

I'm talking to other people who are weighing up whether they will come forward and a lot of whether they come forward depends on how Mr. Grush is treated. They're very nervous. I mean, there are people who have devoted much of their lives to working on the technologies [01:09:00] that we're talking about and they're deeply frustrated that the American public don't know about it and that a great scientific ever endeavor could be undertaken to actually make breakthroughs in these technologies. And so I think the thing I really admire is all of these people are patriots. They're not telling me things that should be kept classified. They're not telling me how to develop these technologies. They're not telling me how to develop weapons. What they're keen to see is almost [01:09:30] like a Manhattan project style development where America does what it's so good at doing the exceptionalism of the Apollo Moon mission, the achievement of building the nuclear bomb during the second World War.

(01:09:43):

That's what's needed here. There are technologies, propulsion technologies and energy technologies. If Mr. Grush is telling the truth and I think he is, that could be developed for not just America's advantage, but also for the worlds. And there's a strong [01:10:00] patriotic sense here that it's time that this issue was brought out of the darkness. And I do know I've spoken to people in Congress, senators and representatives who've privately admitted to me that they do know the truth of what Mr. Grush is talking about. But there's a fear. There's a genuine fear of doing the wrong thing because we are at a very dangerous time in human history right now. We're teetering on the edge of confrontations with Russia and China. And frankly, [01:10:30] if anybody's going to win, I want it to be the good guys. I want it to be our American ally and Australia.

(01:10:36):

My country is part of that Five Eyes Alliance that has done so many good things to help protect the world and keep security. And I guess the people that are weighing coming forward, they feel very strongly that security, if anything, is imperiled by the continuing secrecy that we're seeing here. They're fearful that unless this is brought out into the open, [01:11:00] it's just going to stay hidden forever. And they're saying to me the reason why they think it's being kept secret is because the gatekeepers to this information are terrified of getting into trouble because they have committed crimes, they've committed terrible crimes.

Speaker 12 (01:11:16):

No, yeah, and it seemed like that's what David Gus's motivation was too. In all of this, I want to read part of the Pentagon statement. I think it's important obviously, when we first started reporting on this at the beginning of the week, the Pentagon did release a statement that said, in part [01:11:30] to date era, which is the all domain anomaly resolution office has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse engineering of extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently. Joe, you deal with these government groups all the time. What did you make of that statement? I mean, the first thing I thought of was they didn't actually come out and say, no, this isn't true. They just said, no verifiable information. [01:12:00] Joe,

Speaker 17 (01:12:02):

That was my first reaction to Brian and I don't want to speculate too much about it, but I thought that that word verifiable information may be doing a lot of work there. So that was my reaction. And as I was taking it to members of Congress, certainly I was also asking about the Pentagon response specifically. And I mean as we're hearing right from a number of people here, there certainly may be some people in the higher echelons, people who have certain security clearances that [01:12:30] have some of this information that may just be nervous about releasing it for whatever reason. I can tell you that there is a sense just to build on what Ross has said, there is a sense among a lot of members of Congress that they feel like the public does deserve to know more, that if this information is available and is out there, that it should be shared publicly and that for years and years and years, the sort of posture that we're getting from the Pentagon and from other organizations is that the first reaction [01:13:00] is just to keep those things quiet for whatever reason. Obviously there are legitimate reasons to keep certain bits of information classified and certainly there are worries about what our adversaries have and what they know and what they're capable of. So you can sort of understand some of the reasons for the classification. But what I heard over and over and over again is that if what these basic claims that Grush is making now, if they are true, then certainly that is worth investigating [01:13:30] and worth at least shining some light because that they think should be public knowledge.

Speaker 12 (01:13:36):

And Ross, just real quick, we've got a squeeze of break in here, but I guess if you believe Grush and everything he has said, then the Pentagon statement actually makes sense because he's claiming that Arrow, the group that's supposed to be investigating these things does not even know about the secret program. So the statement actually lines up with what he's claiming.

Ross Coulthart (01:13:58):

Exactly. Arrow does not [01:14:00] have Title 50 access, which would give it access to look at special access programs and covert actions, and because of that it can't do its job.

Speaker 12 (01:14:09):

Okay. Thank you so much, Ross. Don't go anywhere because we've still got a lot of questions for you. We do know that Grush is the man who he says he is, that he has the top secret clearance, but there are some holes in his revelation. Next, I will add some new voices to this conversation. Tackle the question, why would Mr. Grush make all of this up? He could actually go to jail. He's [01:14:30] testified under oath about it. We're going to discuss that question coming up after the break.

Ross Coulthart (01:14:45):

The word credible is important. Yes, you appreciate So an official investigatory body of the United States government has determined that your allegations are credible.

Speaker 21 (01:14:55):

Correct.

Speaker 12 (01:14:58):

Back. Welcome back. I'm Brian [01:15:00] Enton. We are live reacting to News Nation's exclusive one-on-one interview with UFO Pentagon whistleblower, David Gresh alleging a secret government program to retrieve alien vehicles. Ross Cold Hart is back with me. He did the interview for News Nation and I want to bring in some more voices Also to add to this conversation, we want to get all sides in. Mick West is a key voice in these discussions. He does not believe Dave's story. He doesn't think that it adds up. I also have with me Michael Shellenberger who believes [01:15:30] that this has been a long time coming and Michael does believe David Gus's story. But Mick, I want to start with you. You've seen the interview. Are you essentially calling David Grush a liar?

Speaker 21 (01:15:43):

No. I think he seems to actually believe what he's saying, but the clip you just played there that the complaint and the IG adding credibility to his story isn't actually true. His lawyer who just basically partied bays with him a couple of days ago, issued a statement, which is quite unusual, saying that they [01:16:00] had been misrepresented and that the whistleblower complaint was actually very narrowly scoped and did not speak to the specifics of the alleged classified information that Mr. G is now publicly characterizing. So the idea that it adds credibility to the actual claims he's making isn't true. It's simply credible that he's making some allegation that there was something that was covered up, not what that thing actually was.

Speaker 12 (01:16:22):

Let me bring Ross in because there's an interesting development. I read the statement to Ross. I didn't quite read it like [01:16:30] that. I took the statement from his lawyer and the former inspector general to be, look, we did what we were out to do here to get him this far. And we've finished. I mean, what's going on with the lawyer?

Ross Coulthart (01:16:45):

Okay, let me just make it very clear here. M unfortunately misconceived what the lawyers were actually talking about. Great respect. The simple fact is the representations that were made by the Inspector General, not [01:17:00] by the lawyers, are the ones that are relevant and the Inspector General of intelligence Security, and I've confirmed this with Mr. Grush, the Inspector General of intelligence and security took evidence under oath not only from Mr Gruff but also from people inside the Legacy UAP program. Witnesses have given evidence in support of David Gus's allegations to the Inspector General, and it wasn't just [01:17:30] about the reprisal allegations, unfortunately you are going to hear in coming days. I can't talk about it at this stage, but you are going to hear in coming days that Chuck McCullough is still acting for David Grush. He hasn't dissociated himself from his client at all, and in fact you will see something I'm not allowed to explain, but basically it'll come out in due course that Mr. McCullough is still acting for his client. Okay,

Speaker 12 (01:17:57):

We'll keep an eye on that because that'll be an interesting, [01:18:00] I just want to get Mick back in that we will be looking for that because there's been some uncertainty with the lawyer situation. But Mick, I just want to ask you, because you're a skeptic. The thing that I keep going back to is David Grush has these incredible credentials, high level intelligence officer spent years keeping these secrets, has now gone under oath essentially and could go to jail for lying about some of this stuff. I mean, what would his reason for lying be?

Speaker 21 (01:18:30):

[01:18:30] I don't necessarily think that he is lying. All the stuff that he says has been cleared by Dosa, the Defense Office of Pre-publication and Security Review. That doesn't mean that it's actually true. It doesn't mean that he's lying, but it also doesn't mean that it's accurate. The things that have been clear for release are

Speaker 12 (01:18:49):

Quite, I don't it. I'm I don't understand. What do you mean If you don't believe his story, but then wouldn't he be lying? Explain to me what you mean. No,

Speaker 21 (01:18:56):

No. He will be mistaken if someone has told him stuff and he believes [01:19:00] that what they have told him, he's not lying. He's just mistaken and the claims that he's made are quite extraordinary and they're things that would be secret. The idea that we have aliens are killing Americans. The thing that we've discovered, these craft and the actual details of the analysis that we've performed on this isotopic analysis of things like that. If that was actually an adversary craft, we wouldn't want them to know what type of analysis we performed on them. So he's revealing things that would be secret. They've been cleared by the Department of Defense, which means they're not actually secret, which [01:19:30] probably means that they're not actually true.

Speaker 12 (01:19:32):

Interesting. Okay. I follow what you're saying now, Michael, I want to bring you in. You've said publicly just this week that you have heard from sources who also back up what Grush has said. Can you elaborate on that?

Speaker 22 (01:19:47):

Yeah, that's right, and I just want to clarify that I have not said that I believe David Grush. What I've said is that I've spoken to multiple other people with high levels of security clearance who confirm the [01:20:00] basic claim that Rush is making, which is that the US government is in possession of over 12 non-human craft. I'm actually not making statements about my own beliefs. I'm reporting what I was told by people with a lot of credibility that are in a position to know and that are very sane and so sane and so respected that they have achieved high levels of security clearance.

Speaker 12 (01:20:24):

Let me ask you, Michael, because the number one tweet that I've gotten with people reaching out to me and commenting and [01:20:30] sending me dms is, Brian, you've fallen for this. This is all a distraction. The government is trying to distract us from something by putting this out there. What do people mean by that, Michael? I mean, have you heard this too?

Speaker 22 (01:20:47):

Oh, sure, and we should be concerned that the US government is engaged in a disinformation campaign. It's engaged in disinformation campaigns since the late 1940s. That's not a conspiracy theory. It's very well documented. [01:21:00] We've seen, in fact, the US government is admitted to it. There's a 1978 New York Times magazine article about US government coverup. We know from the 2017 New York Times revelations around including the videos that the Pentagon had been studying this for decades and covered it up. So I mean, just to cut to the chase, I think the issue here is that if you're really sure there's no non-human craft in the possession of the US government, then nobody should have any problem with going to look for them. So really, what's the question here? Is [01:21:30] Congress going to finally do what it should have done many decades ago? And that's to stand up to very powerful people in the military and intelligence communities to demand that we should be able to go and search those places where the allegations are being made, that there are these non-human craft.

(01:21:47):

I mean, that's the bottom line. Congress needs to find its courage. I would note that this is coming at a time where we've seen an abuse of power in multiple agencies. I've been reporting on whistleblowers from the FBI [01:22:00] have more whistleblower stores coming, and we're seeing these agencies that are supposed to be under the control of, as well as the direct supervision of Congress, evading congressional oversight. That's why David, Gus and so many other people have had to go to become whistleblowers, to go directly to Congress because the arrow DOD agency that studies this issue had not been passing that information onto Congress.

Speaker 12 (01:22:25):

And I see Mick also nodding his head. It does seem like regardless of what side of this issue [01:22:30] you're on, whether you believe it or not, there does seem to be agreement that Congress should investigate and that the American people should know the truth about what is actually known. Mick West Michael Shellenberger, thank you so much both for being here with us. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 22 (01:22:45):

Thank you. It's good be

Speaker 12 (01:22:47):

With you. Still coming up just ahead, a Las Vegas family called the police claiming to see an eight foot tall creature after a crash in their backyard. The craziest part of this to me is that a police officer also saw something too. [01:23:00] This just happened this week. Very weird timing. It came out this week as we do this story on the whistleblower coming forward, something crashed. What was it? Is the government involved like Dave Grush claims? We're going to show you the bizarre 9 1 1 calls and the body camera footage from that night. It's coming up next.

Speaker 23 (01:23:26):

There's like an eight foot person beside and another [01:23:30] ones inside and it has big eyes looking at us and it's still there. Okay, where is this

Speaker 24 (01:23:35):

On your property?

Speaker 23 (01:23:37):

In my backyard. I swear to God this is not a joke. This is actually, we clarify it. So there's

Speaker 24 (01:23:43):

Two people or two subjects that are in your backyard,

Speaker 23 (01:23:48):

Correct? And they're very large. They're like eight foot, nine feet, 10 foot, I don't know. They look like aliens to us. Big eyes. They have big eyes. I can't explain [01:24:00] it. And big mouth, they're shiny eyes and they're not human. They're a hundred percent. They're not human.

Speaker 12 (01:24:08):

Okay. A potential UFO investigation was sparked from this emergency nine one one call in Las Vegas on April 30th. A family claims something crashed and their backyard, the video coming out just this week, they claim they saw non-human. It's the way it was described, beings walking around and whatever it was, it looked right at them. They say the officers [01:24:30] who went to the home also reported seeing a flash in the sky. That's significant. Right before this nine one one call came in, here's a look at police body camera video from that night.

Speaker 25 (01:24:43):

This might sound like a really dumb question, but did you guys see anything fall out of the sky? I would normally discount it as nothing. However, seen as one of my partners said they saw it too.

Speaker 12 (01:24:57):

Okay, news Nation correspondent Nancy Lou has [01:25:00] more on this. Nancy, I got to tell you, the guy just sounded so calm to me. That's what he didn't even sound excited, and he was basically saying, it's an alien. What do you make of it?

Speaker 26 (01:25:13):

Elsewhere in the call though, he truly sounds scared and anxious, and also the police body cam, you hear bewilderment and a little bit of fear in the voices of the officers. So it's hard to know what to believe, [01:25:30] but we should tell you that there was a follow-up a few days later with the police going to the home of that family, and the family reported seeing government looking vehicles in the neighborhood. They also reported seeing men in suits and dark glasses. So we don't know if that's popular culture weaving into a hoax or if there really is this covert retrieval program that [01:26:00] Dave Brush alleges exists in our,

Speaker 12 (01:26:03):

Yeah, certainly sounds like a scene from a movie when you talk about the sunglasses and the suits. But there was video. I mean, there was body camera video and then they released clearer video. The police did, and there was clearly something in the sky. We know you'll stay on it. Nancy, thanks for being with us tonight. Okay, there's more to come though. GRE's account has racked up millions of views. It's a topic in government and media worldwide right now, but what's next? Where does all of this lead? Are there more government whistleblowers ready [01:26:30] to come out of the shadows, back up his story, or should we just toss all of this aside as fiction and move on? We've got some final thoughts from Ross who did that interview with David Brush that's coming up after the break. Welcome back. I'm Brian Enton here with Journalist Ross Colt Hart. Before we go, we want to have a few final thoughts with Ross. We watched your incredible special [01:27:00] just eyeopening. We've talked about it for the last hour. Now, Ross, I'm left wondering if there's really nothing to hide here. What is the harm in investigating? Why doesn't the government just do an investigation, prove everybody wrong? If they want to prove everybody wrong, why not just prove everybody wrong?

Ross Coulthart (01:27:20):

Great question, Brian. I mean, the simple fact is Dave Grush has called their bluff. It's time to put up or shut up. If they think he's lying, [01:27:30] send him to jail. Prove it. He says he's telling the truth and he wants you, the American public to know all about what he knows about, and I think it's incumbent now on Congress to do its job and also the media. It's got to start asking questions. It's time to start poking a stick at this huge secret because after all, it is the biggest story in human history. Are we alone? It's quite extraordinary that we probably are not,

Speaker 12 (01:28:00):

[01:28:00] It's hard to wrap your mind around, but if even presidents don't know, if even the highest levels of our government don't know, how do we break through?

Ross Coulthart (01:28:12):

Well, it's a good question. I mean, I actually detect, I'm an eternal optimist. Brian and I do detect a willingness. There are really good people in your defense and intelligence services, people who've helped a journalist like me, frankly, they want this out. They laugh at the idea that there's any justification for [01:28:30] the continued secrecy. They think you've got a right to know it's time. The secrets were released and told, and more importantly, it's time for Congress men and women, republicans, Democrats, bipartisan to take this issue up and run with it. They're too frightened of the whole military and intelligence community because an enormous amount of their voter support comes from that lobby. But it's time to stand up and ask questions. That's all Mr. Grush [01:29:00] is asking. Ask questions, investigate.

Speaker 12 (01:29:04):

Maybe this is the moment, Ross. We'll see. We've already got the House oversight committee saying that they're going to have a hearing, so we'll see where it goes. Incredible work, Ross. It was just an eyeopening interview. Thank you everybody for joining us tonight. Really glad that we were able to have this open, honest conversation. It's what sets Snooze Nation apart, covering a topic like UFOs in a fair, objective way, being respectful to believers, being respectful to skeptics, [01:29:30] regardless of what side you're on. I think we showed you tonight. It is definitely a conversation worth having and a topic we will continue to cover. Have a good night. We'll see you on Morning in America.