2023-08-03 - BBC Radio 4's The World Tonight - David Grusch / Charles McCullough

Disclaimer: This is a machine generated transcript and does include errors. Please check the original source if there is question of accuracy. 

Source: https://youtu.be/x_JPVAHvXj8

Interviewer (00:00):

Also on the program. Is there something else out there? We speak to a former military official about why he testified to Congress claiming the US government knows much more about UFOs than it's telling the public,

David Grusch (00:13):

Me going public was the appropriate lever to pull when it comes to public accountability and emphasizing the seriousness to the different branches of US government.

Interviewer (00:25):

A former intelligence officer by the name of David Grush caused quite a stir last week when he gave evidence at a congressional hearing about UFO sightings. He claimed that the US government has away from the public glare intact and partially intact alien vehicles, and you'll hear him repeat that claim in a moment because he's been speaking to this program. A recent Ipsos poll found that about 42% of Americans believe in other worldly UFOs or UAPs, unexplained anomalous phenomena, and one in 10 Americans reported they'd actually seen one. Well, here's what Republican Tennessee representative Tim Burett said in opening last week's remarkable hearing into alien existence.

Speaker 3 (01:08):

I think it's time for this country to take back our country. We need to tell the folks at the Pentagon they work for us Dadgummit. We don't work for them. We're not bringing little green men or flying saucers into the hearing. Sorry to disappoint. We're just going to get to the facts. We're going to uncover the coverup, and I hope this is just the beginning of many more hearings and more people coming forward about this.

Interviewer (01:29):

Well, I've been speaking to David Gros and to his lawyer, Chuck McCulloch. First David, why did he decide to come forward and speak at the hearing?

David Grusch (01:38):

It boils down to a sense of duty and an act of truth to power, and it seemed like me going public was the appropriate lever to pull when it comes to public accountability and emphasizing the seriousness to the different branches of US government.

Interviewer (01:59):

The most eye-catching claim that you made during your evidence and the one that made the most headlines was the claim that the US government has intact and partially intact alien vehicles in its possession. In other words, it has them, but it isn't telling people about them. Why did you go public with that specifically?

David Grusch (02:23):

I found that to be very important for the public at large to understand their place in the cosmos, their placed in the universe, and that's something I believe the US government should be held accountable for potentially over classifying or misclassifying basic science.

Interviewer (02:43):

But how do you know they have these items? Because you've not seen them yourself, have you?

David Grusch (02:48):

There's certain things that I have firsthand access to that I can't publicly discuss at this time. However, myself and other colleagues interviewed 40 individuals, both our current former highly distinguished intelligence and military personnel that were specifically on these programs and those that were willing, I directed to the Intelligence Community Inspector General. So the Inspector General was able to interview these people that do have direct firsthand information.

Interviewer (03:20):

Right. So they have that information directly. Have they actually seen these vehicles?

David Grusch (03:27):

The individuals I interviewed that I directed to the Inspector General, yes. They have the firsthand experiences. Yes. Right,

Interviewer (03:35):

Which is an extraordinary claim as you would readily acknowledge. Why if it's true, has the government not acknowledged it?

David Grusch (03:46):

Yeah, I mean, that's a multifaceted question. It goes back 80, 90 years ago when this was first created, and they translated some of the secrecy from the Manhattan Project onto this subject because they weren't sure how ontologically shocking it was going to be to the world populace. And then two, as you can imagine, it's a Pandora's box for potential military and weapons development type reverse engineering activities. So they decided to keep it under wraps for many years.

Interviewer (04:22):

We're talking here just about the US government if they've got these things hidden away, surely other governments around the world might've had a similar experience. So the idea that it's a solely American thing is surely fanciful.

David Grusch (04:35):

It does cross into other countries and other allies to include. The five eyes alliance, which is something I've already stated publicly. The media reporting bias and societal transparency is a little different in the us. That's the crux, what most people hear, but it is certainly not an American issue.

Interviewer (04:55):

I want to put some of the doubting voices to you in a moment, but I want to bring Chuck in first. I mean Chuck as a lawyer working alongside David. What are the legal implications of what he is saying and what the government is denying?

Charles McCullough (05:07):

Our government relies on congressional oversight, the checks and balances of congressional oversight. David's allegation at its base is essentially that Congress does not have access to the information it needs to properly oversee things going on in the executive branch. That was his main concern. So he's briefed both of the Intel committees and he's had a two hour hearing, two hours of testimony last week.

Interviewer (05:37):

David, can I go back to you with some of the responses that have been aired to what you said? The head of the Pean's office in this area? Sean Kirkpatrick issued a statement last week. You'll be aware of it. Calling your testimony insulting and saying that you were never a representative to his unit.

David Grusch (05:57):

Dr. Kirkpatrick oversaw our activities and what we were doing and the money we were spending. I never said I was a part of the core team, so I believe it was just lost in translation or misconstrued.

Interviewer (06:11):

David Grusch and Chuck McCullough.