2023-11-04 - International Coalition for Extraterrestrial Research

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Interviewer (00:17):

So Dave, nowadays you are very famous in the whole UFO community, but let's go back a bit and please tell us the basic reasons that made you decide to come forward in the open with your explosive declarations.

David Grusch (00:39):

Yeah. Well, the journey of going public was a very long one. It was a journey that I didn't think that was going to end the way it did with me leaving my career. I reported that information to the Inspector General back in 2022 because I saw the UAP task force was not being afforded access to these programs that I uncovered through witness interview, document review, et cetera. And based on reprisals I was facing, it was most prudent for me to, for my own protection, submit a whistleblower complaint with the Intelligence Community Inspector General that ran its course. I provided the Intelligence Committee's information in late 2022, but I saw the writing on the wall where I wasn't going to be able to affect change and of pressure of the investigation that would've been necessary to break open these programs for further study within the government. So I took it upon myself. I looked around and I was the only one out of my small contingent of colleagues that had kind of the right opportunity to go public. And I decided that that made the most sense. So I could use the levers of public pressure to hold the legislative branch and the executive branch accountable in the us. I saw internally there was no way that this issue was going to be self policed within the US government. So I needed to go on the outside to hold them accountable.

Interviewer (02:23):

Good. And specifically, I would like to know, did you experience any kind of problems for what you have publicly declared?

David Grusch (02:35):

There were some high level officials in some former agencies I worked for that were very unhappy to see my face on television. And some of the pushback I got after I went public is I have told Congress that behind closed doors and the Department of Defense Inspector General are looking at some of the reprisal aspects after I went public as well, because some things that Congress may disclose in the future about certain elements of the US government that were unhappy with me going

Interviewer (03:09):

Public. So could you tell us, Dave, as far as you are told, and as far as you can, of course, how many U UFO or UAP crafts are in possession of the US government?

David Grusch (03:24):

I was presented those specific numbers in a classified environment, and I did provide those metrics to authorities, like I said, on News Nation and just quite a number. I'll just say it's double digits, the exact numbers I did not clear through pre-publication and security review. And furthermore, some of the more specifics, as I've said in a recent interview on a YouTube channel called Yes Theory, it really should be the US President and other officials that provide the more detailed disclosure. I don't have all the data. I don't know what some of the ramifications are with certain things. And you have to remember giving out specific metrics or numbers, foreign intelligence services, Russia, China, et cetera. They're watching this video right now and they want to see did they get their numbers right. And I'm not here to provide foreign intelligence services additional data, so I have to be very careful about specifics. It's not because I don't want to be transparent, but I do know foreign intelligence services are watching these kind of videos.

Interviewer (04:32):

So Dave, could you tell us something about the involvement of private US corporations into the reverse engineering program or programs?

David Grusch (04:45):

Yeah, there's certainly been private corporations involved, both federally funded research development centers and for-profits, companies that have contracted with the US government over the years, like I've mentioned in other interviews, the US government overlaid the Manhattan Project Secrecy personnel generally what elements were involved corporately and governmentally in that too. Atomic Energy Commission, which morphed into Department of Energy Nuclear Regulatory Commission later. And that is why you see in what we call the Schumer Amendment in the United States that hopefully will be signed here very shortly, and maybe it'll be signed by the time the conference happens where they cite the Atomic Energy Act in 1954 and other provisions within the unclassified Schumer Amendment. That's because they understand that the secrecy justification ran along the lines of US nuclear secrets. And that's a whole other discussion for now. And I'll mention that. You'll notice in the Schumer amendment, they talk about trans classified for nuclear information TF and I in the Schumer amendment.

(06:05):

And that is not by accident because you can imagine what that means is, say the US through intelligence operations stole a foreign nuclear secret. Well, the US liked that foreign nuclear secret and wanted to make it their own. So they trans classified it into a US protected nuclear capability. And that's what the Schumer amendment was trying to espouse, if you read in between the lines that they've justified it through these nuclear secrecy provisions. But yes, certainly private companies were involved. The specific ones I did provide to the congressional committees and the Inspector General down to specific facilities I am aware of down to the address where they exist. And also I had the individuals that firsthand worked on the program provide that disclosure and interview with the Inspector General as well. So it wasn't just coming from me.

Interviewer (07:11):

So Dave, are you aware or can you confirm the fact that murders have been committed for the purpose of maintaining secrecy on everything concerns the U-F-O-U-A-P subject?

David Grusch (07:28):

I don't have any personal knowledge, but of the 40 people we did interview, I'd say about 10 to 12 of them had concerns about wet work murders in the past, people going missing in their workplace. I certainly had some disturbing things happen to me in my personal life from a physical intimidation perspective, which I reported to my agency's counterintelligence element when I was still in governments. Obviously I was never physically harmed, but I certainly saw signatures of what I thought was illicit, extra governmental activity as it related to intimidating me and some of my other colleagues just was very, very disturbing and upsetting information. So I don't have any personal knowledge of that kind of stuff, but I did talk to firsthand witnesses who had very high credentials that were government officials that did espouse that concern of illicit wet work and other physical intimidation type activities. So I don't believe that they were lying. So I feel like that is a genuine concern, and I would champion an investigation to see if that is true.

Speaker 3 (08:52):

As in 1971, when I was a lieutenant of the Italian army serving in an elite NATO unit with atomic missiles in northern Italy, I was asked by two United States Army officers if I was aware that the United States had recovered, crashed UFOs and the bodies of their pilots as well. So in any case, you can confirm that the same kind of declarations that you publicly provided have been provided in classified environment by other military or intelligence officers?

David Grusch (09:32):

Yes, those same facts were confirmed to me by people with firsthand knowledge that worked on those programs that there have been crashes and we've retrieved crafts and biological material bodies, if you will, like I've stated previously publicly. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:48):

Can you provide at least an estimate of how many whistle brows have come forward?

David Grusch (09:57):

Yeah, so I believe it was a news article lately that discussed, I think it was like 28 or 30 came forward to the domain anomaly resolution office arrow. And I of course am not involved in that part, but that's the numbers that I saw in a news article lately. But in terms of how many have come to the Intelligence Community Inspector General, I'd say about a dozen or so, some of the whistleblowers I don't personally know. So I don't know who in addition, they may have brought forward as well either to back up their claims or to file independent complaints. But it's certainly not just me. I just was the one that took it for the team and went public. But there's certainly at least a dozen or so of people behind the scenes like me, but also those that actually worked on the program firsthand that touched the craft, if you will.

Speaker 3 (10:57):

So you can indirectly confirm at least part of what the late Phillips course wrote in the day after Roswell book concerning the reverse engineering operations being operated by private corporations with materials provided by the military.

David Grusch (11:18):

Yes, at least, at the very least. I mean, I can't verify his whole story, of course, I think he died in 1998. I think I was 11 or 12 years old then. But certainly the US government, if they had custodianship, they would give some pieces and parts to different private contractors for reverse engineering. At least that general story is true. The other aspects of the story, and if he was specifically involved, I'm not certain I was obviously never able to interview him or investigate this stuff in the scope of my duties, but generally that statement is true.

Speaker 3 (12:02):

What about the biological aspect? How many bodies were recovered as far as you were told? Only dead bodies were recovered are also leaving biological entities?

David Grusch (12:15):

Certainly the numbers are up there just the same as crash retrievals. We'll leave it as double digit. And the biologics came in a variety of states and morphologies and all that stuff. But yeah, that's the stuff I can't quite get into publicly. But I encourage the president and others to kind of explain the types of biological recoveries we've had, and I encouraged the executive branch in our country to inform the world on that.

Speaker 3 (12:49):

Since decades, we keep on hearing stories of secret United States government et contacts and tax and even treaties struck with DT In 20,020, the prominent Israeli scientists time a shed also openly confirmed this scenario. Are you by any chance aware of this? And if possible, of course. Can you tell us something on this subject?

David Grusch (13:20):

Yeah, I didn't interview anybody that espoused firsthand knowledge about any kind of active communication or interaction with non-human intelligence. Many believed that there were certainly probably an aspect of a program that dealt with that. However, I was not able to interview anybody that had firsthand knowledge. So anything I would say would be rumor and speculation, but I think that is an extremely fair question to ask. And that's a question I would like an answer to as well, because I was never able to interview anybody that had that firsthand knowledge, definitely to make me confident to say anything with any authority.

Speaker 3 (14:09):

Coming now to the subject of that has raised quite a bit of interest here in Italy. That is the, so-called Mussolini, UFO case confirmed before you mentioned it also by Luis Elizondo. Could you please elaborate on the way you got to know the event, his characteristics and so on?

David Grusch (14:31):

Yes. Some of my interview subjects that I ultimately directed to the Inspector General, they did give me a briefing on all the US involved recoveries that happened over the years and the Mussolini case that interestingly enough, is already out there in public vernacular thanks to your work uncovering that case. And the 1933 Magenta area crash was one of the events that they talked about, and that was one that I submitted in my DOD and pre-publication review to be able to talk about publicly. I thought that was a very remarkable international case that would hopefully spur not just US interest but European interest. And so what's interesting about that crash is some stuff I haven't stated publicly, but I did submit it for security review. So when it came down, when they went to recover it, it had a acorn or bell shaped. But what really happened there is they believed that the original craft was lenticular or saucer because when it crashed, when they came to recover it, all the edges were broken off around the craft.

(15:53):

And so it looked like a bell or an acorn, but really it had additional characteristics that were destroyed when it landed. But Pope Pius the 12th was involved and he sent a communicate through the OSS, the American OSS, and it ended up going to FDRs desk. But as far as I know, unless the records were destroyed, the Vatican in the Pope Pius the 12th section of the Vatican Secret Archives. There should be documented evidence from what I was told. Now, these Intel officers that briefed me on this, that had firsthand knowledge, they assumed that the Vaticans still had those records and they weren't destroyed, and they postulated if they did what specific post records it would've been in because of the time and past the twelfth's involvement back then. And of course, that was ultimately recovered at the end of the war and went under US possession after

Speaker 3 (17:04):

Just the curiosity. You have been the United States Air Force, so this, it can be your opinion since the object crashed in Italy was after all rather big, do you think that it could have been taken to the United States in an airplane or via a ship?

David Grusch (17:26):

I don't recall that they've ever, they mentioned to me how they brought it back, but if I were to speculate based on knowledge, I mean of B 29, B 17, C 47 aircraft back then, based on the dimensions that they described to me, it was fairly large, 10 plus meters. So I think it would've had to been a ship. Most likely it sounded too big for any US transport plane that I'm aware of from World War ii. That'd be my pure speculation, but I don't actually know how they did it.

Interviewer (18:01):

So Dave, can you confirm whether or not bodies were recovered from the 1933 magenta UFO crash?

David Grusch (18:12):

I did ask that question to my briefers, and the answer was no. They don't recall any kind of biological material coming with it. It was just an artifact that they recovered. So I'm not aware of any bodies, and they were not aware of any either.

Speaker 3 (18:30):

David, finally, are you aware of the existence of other original documents, be they of Italian American or German origin connected to the Italian 1953 UFO crash?

David Grusch (18:44):

I would surmise that there's probably records in the FDR classified presidential records in America, but that was research I was never able to conduct myself. So besides that, I'm not aware of any other documentation besides internal US legacy crash retrieval documents and other stuff that some of my interview subjects had personal access to in their US government duties. Now, there were other foreign events that they actually provided the intelligence reports to me, and I personally read the reports myself and laid eyes on those documents. But those are different events, not in Western Europe.

Interviewer (19:36):

So Dave, this is going to be the final question of this interview. Could you elaborate on the international dimension of this UFO retrieval and reverse engineering programs, which happened in other countries? Of course, as far as you can tell?

David Grusch (20:04):

Yeah. This is an extension of what I mentioned, my initial news nation interview about that cold war, that arms race that has been happening behind the scenes below the noise floor where, so certainly our adversaries at their own programs and have, we've been competing with them, A, to gather all this stuff and then B, try to make those engineering breakthroughs that provide weapons development advancements for war purposes. Very little of this technology has matriculated into civil society and all that. So our adversaries certainly have their own programs, and even China, for example, announced that they have their own UAP task force. There was a June, 2021 South China Morning post article where China discusses they're using artificial intelligence machine learning to evaluate UAP cases. Now, Russia hasn't made a public statement in that regard that I can think of. I mean, they certainly have made some statements in the 1990s that you are very familiar with, but as of late, I think China was the only one to make an official acknowledgement, at least that they have a task force. Not necessarily anything else, but certainly with our adversaries. We've been engaged in these activities for a long time.

Interviewer (21:47):

Okay.