2023-11-11 - Jesse Michels Yes Theory “Are “Aliens” Just Future Humans?"

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David Grusch (00:00):

Why would the government even be allowed to have this stuff in their possession if a higher sentience either didn't want it or wanted it back? And I just kind went. I'm like, well, but the fact is we do.

Jesse Michels (00:12):

Do you believe the US government is in possession of time machine craft?

Speaker 3 (00:19):

I think if these things that crashed are time machines, then absolutely. And you think they're a time machine? I do.

Speaker 4 (00:27):

Aliens could potentially be us

Speaker 3 (00:29):

In the future. Do you believe in aliens and we are

Speaker 5 (00:31):

Fucking aliens

Speaker 3 (00:32):

All the time. They can breathe our air, they can have sex with us, they can speak our languages. They're just the suite of characteristics that scream time traveling future humans.

Jesse Michels (00:41):

Dr. Michael P Masters is a biological anthropologist and professor at Montana Tech University. He's written three books, identified flying objects, the Extra Tempest Real Model, and recently Revelation the Future Human Past. In these works, he lays out a theoretical framework that he's been developing for his entire life and one that in my opinion, best explains the UFO phenomena that aliens are humans from the future who figured out time travel and are coming back to visit us.

Speaker 6 (01:12):

If you think about how we're actually evolving as a species, their eyes are sort of slit. You're going to have more screen time going

Jesse Michels (01:18):

Forward. Senses essential for hunter gathering like smell and hearing matter less than ever. And the gray aliens have very small noses and ears. There's even an evolutionary concept called neony where a species distant descendants look like its current children and gray aliens are constantly described as childlike. They

Speaker 7 (01:38):

Were about the size of the kids. They were about three feet tall.

Jesse Michels (01:43):

What's more the list of credentialed UFO researchers that believed the time travel hypothesis is endless. Navy Commander George Hoover, who held the top secret clearance for most of his life, admitted that the beings in the Roswell crash were just time traveling humans. And Herman Oberth, the father of German rocketry and Werner v bro's mentor said that UFOs likely don't traverse large distances in space. They jump from one time space coordinate to another. Even Spielberg may have included a couple of time travel related hints and close encounters of the third kind because

Speaker 3 (02:17):

At the end you see the World War II pilots come out. They haven't aged it all. That's true. That's a subtle little, Hey, these guys are time travelers. Einstein was

Jesse Michels (02:26):

Right according to Deadpool creator Robert Lee Field Spielberg said to Robert in 1993, what's easier to believe that we are being monitored by aliens from another world or that we are monitoring ourselves and studying us from the future? And in a recent Newsweek article, blink 180 2, front Man and to the Stars Academy founder Tom DeLong said, these things aren't coming from other planets. These things might be coming through time.

Speaker 3 (02:51):

Paul Hynek always said one of J Hynek sons, how would they find us and why would they care? They would find us because we're their ancestors. Why would they care about this planet unless they're said to inherit it?

Jesse Michels (03:05):

As for the craft, UFOs themselves may simply be time machines. Experiencers almost always report missing time or time anomalies. Strong electromagnetism comes off the craft, which as we'll get into makes sense if these crafts are time machines. And finally many contactees report having to take chemical rinses in what's speculated to be antiseptic liquid perhaps so they don't contaminate the future with the pathogen that's already been wiped out

Speaker 8 (03:32):

Every put the device.

Speaker 3 (03:34):

I don't think they're necessarily doing anything to us. I think it's for them. I think it's self-preservation that something in the future requires them to sample gametes from the

Jesse Michels (03:42):

Past. In this interview, we cover it all how we might be unwitting participants in an intertemporal breeding program, how the phenomenon relates to biological evolution and how the crafts would work as time machines in a conventional physics framework. We talk about the nature of time, time loops, timeline wars, psychic remote viewing. And Mike even shares his own personal experience with the future human visitors.

Speaker 3 (04:07):

My eyes went black and all of a sudden I feel all of this information coming in my brain and the other individual standing to my left occasionally would say, did you get that? Did you get that? I'm like, and I can see it coming in. I have no idea what it's, wow.

David Grusch (04:24):

And I've talked to people that have espoused it. It was almost like a QR code downloaded in their brain was the communication

Jesse Michels (04:32):

Along the way. We dropped new revelations from David Rush, the UFO whistleblower from my last video that blew the cover on UFO reverse engineering programs.

David Grusch (04:41):

I talked to people who really did analyze the stuff from the real deal stuff and it's super weird. It's like heavy element europium, Californium and stuff. It's in these atomic arrangements that make no sense.

Jesse Michels (04:55):

So on that note, hit subscribe and converge with your feature self. As you watch today's American Alchemist, Dr. Michael Masters.

Speaker 8 (05:07):

Different parts of the rain have different activities, but you know that don't you? Maybe you should interview me

Speaker 3 (05:25):

And this place is interesting. Where are we? Would you bring me back in time for this conversation or something? Man, feels like it Trippy.

Jesse Michels (05:38):

I'm excited to speak with you.

Speaker 3 (05:40):

Yeah, same man. Yeah. Even if it isn't a trip out 1950s, Diana, I

Jesse Michels (05:45):

Don't know what happened. We just ended up here. So you've written the three books now, two of which I've read and are fantastic identified flying objects and the Extra Tempest model. And in the second book you really prove out the theoretical framework for how a lot of what we consider extraterrestrial visitors are actually just emmens from the future. I think one of the most remarkable things from your book is you cite the free Edgar Mitchell study,

Speaker 3 (06:13):

Which the largest study of contactees abductee experiencers in general. The time they published that study I was referencing, I think they had about 3,500 and it's up about 5,000 now. So they're continuing to bring more data in and then further analyses might change some of the ways that we look at these things.

Jesse Michels (06:31):

And you say that 52% of the respondents Contactees experience hominid like creatures in their kind of contact experience and then 85% of those cases, well this is what I find fascinating, have a experience, friendlier neutral experience, which might show that if they are future transtemporal humans or something, they show a care for us in a way that will maybe help us ascend into them or ensure their own sustenance in a way. Yeah, and

Speaker 3 (07:05):

What's another interesting thing you can tease out of that is the ones who did interact with less human forms had a more negative experience. And so you kind of have to break that down. Is it because it was scarier? Is there more ontological shock when something that looks like a giant bug is abducting you that can control your mind and interact with you telepathically and give you images and all of these crazy downloads. But it is interesting that the most reported form is human. And you might expect that. I think we talked about this previously where you might expect that based on where we are in time, because in the same way that here in Los Angeles or wherever the hell you took me, you have people that you interact with more who are local, who are here because they're just there. They're closer to you in proximate geographic space. But it may be similar with time where you expect to see people from closer to your relative time because you're closer to them, whereas these ones that are more distant, maybe the praying mantis looking humans because I don't think they're actual insects or they would've six legs by definitions, one caveat, but we expect to see them less because we're one tiny blip on their radar. It's just we're less likely to run into someone from Malaysia or South Africa and Oklahoma. But we see Oklahomans all the time because they're just there.

Jesse Michels (08:26):

North Sentinel Island is a remote island off the coast of India and its people have had minimal contact with the outside world, saved for a few encounters with anthropologists and Christian missionaries, fully clothed, pale skinned in speaking of foreign language. These people must seem like aliens from another planet to the North Sentinel East. And if you're the majority of North Sentinel natives who didn't interact with these visitors personally, you probably wouldn't believe the ones who did. Over time these contact would get relegated to mythology and lore. We might be making the same wrong assumptions when it comes to UFOs and alien contact experiences. We have our own mythological contact stories that half the population believes while the other doesn't. And we assume these alien contact experiences are interactions with beings from another planet, but maybe our so-called alien visitors aren't from far away. They're from far ahead. Just probabilistically the idea that life in a completely foreign planet would evolutionarily converge to look exactly like us. We're very similar to us speak our language in many cases. As you talk about a lot of these induction

Speaker 3 (09:39):

Experiences,

Jesse Michels (09:39):

Breathe our air, breathe our

Speaker 3 (09:41):

Air, sex with us,

Jesse Michels (09:42):

All of that, it just feels super unlikely. And maybe the one argument to that is that Dave Gush talked about this, they could somehow, they're so advanced that they could program something like us.

David Grusch (09:54):

It's either extraterrestrial and we're seeing bio-engineered beings that look similar to us for ease of communication and acceptance maybe. And that is almost like an avatar for the intelligence behind the ghost, behind the machine or whatever. There's that possibility I suppose. And that actually would make more sense that they were engineered specifically to look like that and it wasn't natural.

Speaker 3 (10:23):

If they're trying to make something that's less jarring to us, that looks and acts more like us, just make it like us. Just

Jesse Michels (10:29):

Make it like us. Why make

Speaker 3 (10:30):

It look like what we're going to look like in another 20, 30, 40,000 years? Totally. But I have thought about that idea of avatars before and it's actually a big part of the storyline in my most recent book, revelation, the Future Human Past where there is some indication that they're making sort of robotic droid, avatars, whatever you want to call 'em, but potentially, and we are not far from this technology now biologically constructed ones. We're move away from moving parts and things that need oiled and can break down to using that advanced knowledge of genetics and genetic manipulation, something probably centuries beyond CRISPR technology and creating forms that can perform certain tasks. So I would agree with GR in the sense that some of these could be created, but then the question is who's creating them?

Jesse Michels (11:24):

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Speaker 9 (12:43):

So I picked four cities in the United States that had different environments and we showed that pesticide were significantly related to the men sperm

Jesse Michels (12:50):

Count. A wolf is to a dog, what a 19th century human will probably be to a 22nd century human. So infertility may become a concern in the future. And consistently these aliens seem very interested in extracting human gametes. You have Antonio Boas, which you write about in 57, describing kind of mating with the future human extraterrestrial being fully doing it, getting busy, getting busy. And you also, you talk about Barney Hill reluctantly saying that Siemens samples were taken from him. Jim Penton rend forest incident in 1980. He recalls a contact experience with extraterrestrials or future humans that say they want to maintain genetic diversity and not get wiped off the planet. And so they specifically need genetic samples from current humans. So what's going on? Are we in some sort of bizarre intertemporal breeding program or something?

Speaker 3 (13:54):

I mean, you're right. That is one of the most common themes. It's ubiquitous across these abduction cases and seemingly mostly throughout the seventies, eighties, nineties, you don't really hear about it as much anymore. But almost every male that was taken would've sperm extracted females have developing fetuses, implanted, taken out eggs being taken. So you have to ask why you see these patterns emerge and you have to ask why. And I think a lot of what I've tried to do with my research is not speculate about what's going to happen, where we're going. I went out of my way to avoid that in all of my books. But we can look at what's happening now and what's happened in the past and we see a 60% reduction in sperm counts in males in only the last 40 years in the developed world of a 50% reduction across the entire world.

Jesse Michels (14:48):

A 2011 study showed that average sperm count is down to 47 million per milliliter,

Speaker 9 (14:54):

Below 40, you start having trouble conceiving

Jesse Michels (14:59):

Jesus. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (15:00):

There's all of these things that are happening that could contribute to problems with genetics in the future. And I think that's what they specifically told Jim Penton. They said, we are you. We come from 8,000 years in the future and yeah, that they're having problems with reproduction and they're taking these gametes. And I think not only that, but also the fact that Antonio v Boas had physical intercourse with this woman who he describes as a woman, she looked a little bit different than women that he knew, slightly higher cheekbones, pointier chin, but all of the same parts that you need to have sex with someone. Would you get those with a species that evolved on a different planet? Would they even have anything close to DNA? Could you take DNA from them? So I think all of these things to together indicate that we are the same species. If this hybridization program is real, you have the ability to reproduce.

Jesse Michels (15:52):

So it does feel like humans are becoming sort of domesticated ala the sperm count stats that you've cited. We are

Speaker 3 (16:00):

Around, we know we've been becoming domesticated for about the last 30,000 years, especially since agriculture. We have a selection for more pro-social behaviors. When we were nomadic hunter gatherers, we could just move around. So always being an asshole, you'd just go somewhere else. But once we started to settle down in cities, there was obviously a lot of conflict. We can see that in the archeological record. It's an aspect of biological anthropology called bio archeology, and we still go to war with each other, but we seem to be moving away from that. A lot of it's because we're domesticating ourselves through the selection for more pro-social behaviors where we can just get alone.

Jesse Michels (16:35):

We have to because we have nukes. It's just mutually assured destruction. It's cataclysmic if we continue our sort of ways. Over the years, humans have collected satellite data of electromagnetic and geomagnetic anomalies on earth. And when you start to cross-reference these electromagnetic anomalies against the significant UFO instances over the last 200 years, you start to see a ridiculous correlation according to UFO researcher Steve Mera. Now

Speaker 10 (17:04):

We want to try and promote the fact that ufology consists of so much more than just a light in the sky.

Jesse Michels (17:09):

Not to mention, if you could create a traversable wormhole that allowed for time travel, you'd see a ton of electromagnetic fallout around it. As future American alchemy guest Eric Wargo writes a portal or UFO itself as shown by the intergalactic wormhole in Interstellar would appear visually as a convex three-dimensional object, having volume not as a whole or doorway. And I remember being at Skin Walker Ranch, which is this famous kind of paranormal hotspot in the, you went to basin in Utah and a tri field meter going off

Speaker 11 (17:44):

Right before we left, we grabbed the tri field meters, it had full battery, it's flashing, it's now dead

Speaker 3 (17:49):

Because

Jesse Michels (17:50):

There was a lot of electromagnetic activity and historically there's been a lot of electromagnetic activity there. And so are we just witnessing wormholes

Speaker 3 (17:58):

Or I kind of get the sense that many of these craft are time machines themselves. A lot of the saucer shaped disc shape craft have a form consistent with the function of manipulating space time. So maybe it helps in moving through space time in some way if they are in fact our time traveling descendants. But there might be more going on. It could have something to do with energy sources or drawing energy from the environment that helps power the craft.

Jesse Michels (18:27):

So maybe portals like Skin Walker Ranch and others with high electromagnetic and nuclear activity are the launch and landing pads for UFOs, not the White House lawn Vandenberg or the tarmac at LAX. If UFOs were simply entering our atmosphere from space, you'd probably expect some sort of electromagnetic superhighway coming to and from Earth. But if you talk to any steady scientists trying to pick up communication signals from space, they'll say the same thing. That space itself is remarkably quiet.

David Grusch (18:59):

When I started out interviewing people that were totally genuine and of course uncovering the legacy program that I've talked about, I mean, I lost a lot of sleep. I couldn't even conceptualize stuff. I mean, even for me, my worldview, which I consider myself an open person, I had trouble even understanding it. And I went back to the Fermi paradigm. I'm like, well, why isn't there an overt presence? Why would the government even be, this is how deep I went. Why would the government even be allowed to have this stuff in their possession if a higher sentience either didn't want it or wanted it back or whatever. You can make up a bunch of notional scenarios that kind of sounds sci-fi, but, and I just like, I kind of went, I'm like, well, but the fact is we do.

Jesse Michels (19:42):

Do you believe the US government is in possession of time machine craft?

Speaker 3 (19:49):

I think if these things that crashed are time machines, then absolutely.

Jesse Michels (19:53):

And you think they're time machine?

Speaker 3 (19:54):

I do. Yeah. Again, just the disc shaped craft, because we have this expression in biology that form follows function and the form of these machines seems to indicate the function of manipulating space time and traveling forward and backwards. I list,

Jesse Michels (20:11):

And that's just based on frank tip's

Speaker 3 (20:13):

Work, not just it's this whole line of evolution stemming from Einstein's original 1915 paper. You have all of these solutions to his field equations. You have lens in theory frame dragging. You have these solutions that show you can tip over those light cones through the rotation of massive objects. We've tested this and shown that even the earth as extremely small planet relative to other exoplanets also creates this frame dragging effect. Not long after that, you had Van Stockham, you had the Godel universe where you imagine this infinitely large disc, like imagine a galaxy that's infinitely large where it's creating that same rotational frame, dragging and bending over light cones so that you can move into the past. And then importantly in the 1970s with Frank Tipler, that's all shrunk down to the size that's finite and it's a rapidly rotating ring sphere or disc as he said. And he shows that you can have all of these same frame dragging light cone bending over properties with something that sounds exactly like a UFO. They're seen rotating, they're seen popping in and out of space time.

David Grusch (21:22):

I mean, I'm not saying our theoretical frameworks are correct, but we really do have physics explanations on how the UAPs jump around or whatever. That's totally an effect of an ocu bear style war bubble. So that would be light being blue shifted into the ultraviolet as it's lens across the bubble that the craft creates.

Speaker 3 (21:46):

It's a blue shift not just in light that takes it up into that short wave radiation area that causes temporary damage to people, but also time is shifted as a result of that. Everything within that region in and around this, what Jim Penton called a sphere of influence where he felt like he was walking through water, like everything within proximity to that craft was different. It was shifted. So there's a lot of things like that that indicate that in proximity to these craft, they are manipulating the rate at which time flows. And if you have that ability, what's stopping you from going back through it? But then we take seriously the accounts, these contact cases where you have things like Corporal Armando Valdez in Chile in the 1970s where he disappears entirely from the six men in his platoon. 15 minutes later he reappears, but five days passed for him was indicated by the wristwatch, which reads five days in the future. His beard has grown out. He was just shaving before that

Jesse Michels (22:46):

Travis Walton wakes up after his abduction experience and he has a fully beard or whatever. He had shaved right before his experience,

Speaker 3 (22:54):

And he may had been gone for five days. That one's harder to corroborate. But it was shown that the trees in then around the place he was taken, the ones facing that side grew faster. Linda Jones in Manchester uk, she was running with her children away from this UFO and the grass was growing rapidly under her feet as she's running the grass

Speaker 12 (23:12):

Seemed to move the side of us and its front of

Speaker 3 (23:15):

This. Amy Rylance is probably one of my favorite cases in this regard because she was taken, her friend Petra watched her being taken through the window. All of a sudden they get this call that she's been found at a petrol station 790 kilometers away. But what's interesting is she claims to have been onboard that craft with a man. She said specifically an interview, I don't call him an alien, I call him a man. He had all of the same physiological characteristics of a man. She claims she was with them for five to seven days. Clearly they traveled seven or 90 kilometers to drop her off, but also seemingly went back in time to drop her off closer to the point at which she was taking and likely because her friend's freaking out, her husband's freaking out. The cops think she was murdered. One case, one of my favorite Udo Ena, he got a tour. He didn't know shit about UFOs or electromagnetics of course, because he's a minor, but they explain that there's these counter-rotating flywheels. So it's like where you have those mag left trains where it sits above, it's a frictionless surface, which is why they can go so fast and use less energy where they're spinning these flywheels and then these magnets, these electromagnets are forcing those around. And something about the counter rotation of those creates this electromagnetic field, which I think is important for their anti-gravity propulsion and importantly the manipulation of space time.

Jesse Michels (24:36):

So do you have a sense of the current engineering limitations on our own ability to build these time machines?

Speaker 3 (24:44):

If these are time machines, B, if we've received them as crashed or landed vehicles, which was an interesting thing to hear that's come out of David G's testimony is that seemingly some of them are gifted intact objects. That sort of gives us a leg up. But then it's still this question of what is time? If there's time travel.

David Grusch (25:09):

I talk to people who really did analyze the stuff from the real deal stuff, and it's super weird. It's like heavy element, you European, California and stuff. It's like in these atomic arrangements that make no sense. This is through x-ray diffraction where they can image the shadows of the atomic pairs and stuff. And it's like why is all these crazy heavy elements in this weird ceramic metal hull structure and we don't understand the emergent metamaterial properties. It's what's going

Jesse Michels (25:44):

On and we can't configure atoms. So you can get down to what 0.2 nanometers or something as far as,

David Grusch (25:49):

Yeah, I mean there's certain techniques out there that they're augmenting some X-ray fraction technologies where you can get down to sub angstrom, but most techniques are like two to five angstrom, which you can't directly image the atoms, but you can see the shadows and some of the configurations, but we're getting to where we could actually image the atoms.

Jesse Michels (26:10):

It's interesting what comes to mind when you say the UFOs themselves are a time machine. I've been kind of really researching this mid-century inventor named Townsend Brown, and he was super into anti-gravity. It was kind of the nominal story of he'd create these super high electrical charges over short distances. He was funded by a guy named Magnuson, and Bateson is quoted as saying very weird effects occur with high electricity over short distances. And what's funny is the deeper cut on Townsend Brown is he was super into time travel and he would talk about it with his daughter Linda. And he even had a confidant who I think has written about Pseudonymously in this great book called The Man Who Master Gravity by a guy named Paul Kin, and his name is Morgan. And Morgan becomes a source for the book, and he's writing to Paul Shakin and Paul's being a little thickheaded about what is the actual machine, what are these gravitate? And at some point Morgan kind of blows up and he goes, it's a fucking time machine. And so you think that maybe past scientists have actually figured out times out? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:22):

Well, I think they figured out that these machines are time machines. Herman Oberth said the same thing. You have General George Hoover who also said, these are time machines. These are future humans. Specifically in the 1940s, we didn't have the technology, we didn't have the comprehension of material sciences and the physics in order to do this. But what I feel is happening is that the visitors themselves are pushing us in this direction, or rather polling maybe is a better word for it. Well, you have all of these Congress people who really weren't paying attention to much of this, and I think it's going to be disclosure from the ones that have been hiding from us this whole time. Yeah.

Jesse Michels (28:05):

I was on the phone yesterday with Robert Hastings who wrote UFOs and Nukes, and he's telling me that he feels like he's being subliminally guided towards disclosing and doing his work. And I'd be lying if I were to say I didn't have sort of similar experiences personally. Have you had any experiences like that?

Speaker 3 (28:25):

I don't think many people are deep into this unless it stems from something, whether that be a light in the sky, they can't explain or some obscure memories from childhood of a craft outside their window or a shadowy figure at their bed. I got into this when I was eight years old because I had what I now understand was a moment of conscious pre-cognition where I visualize together, I talk about this at the beginning, both my books an early human, a modern human, and this archetypal gray alien. And then the thoughts that came with that, which I feel is just now me putting that information back and past me, I would eventually do that and then it's this closed time, like loop of sorts. So that was kind of my motivation, and I've been driven to study physics and astronomy and then change my major to biological anthropology to study the humanoid form associated with them. I was led to do that. I remember the exact moment standing behind Morton Hall at Ohio University. There was this little voice in my head that said, maybe we should explore it this way. Maybe we're all experiencing that. You just don't notice it until you really start to reflect on the way everything's connected and start to put those pieces together, especially with regard to the synchronicities and who you meet and when you meet them.

Jesse Michels (29:48):

Can you say at all, when you had your future human contact experience, what was communicated to you?

Speaker 3 (29:55):

Well, it is interesting you asked that specifically because it was an intervention. I didn't tell anybody this. I was washing dishes at my sink. My wife's sitting on the couch and I just thought, I'm tired. I don't want to do this anymore. I just want to get this last book done. And just kind of slowly back away from all of these conversations, I was traveling a lot, conferences, TV shoots. I was exhausted from

Jesse Michels (30:20):

The UFO topic, specifically

Speaker 3 (30:22):

UFO top. I mean, I wasn't going to go blow my brains out in a closet or something. I was tired of this.

Jesse Michels (30:28):

I've had that experience many times. Man, you feel

Speaker 3 (30:29):

It. It's taxing. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't tell anybody. I thought about telling my wife. I thought about being, you know what? I didn't tell her. I didn't say anything to anyone. When they approached me physically face to face, this individual, there were two individuals present. One pulls up a chair so close that his knee goes into my crotch, and I have a very strong fight or flight response. So it was very much fight. And he looks at me in the eyes and says, I can tell you're very upset about this, but I need to be this close for this to work. And all of a sudden, happiness returns. Next thing he said is what got in my head a little. He said, actually, he's not the right pronoun. They, it's all they. That's the only pronoun they ever used. There was never a sense of ego or individualism at all.

(31:25):

In fact, I came away with this with no sense of ego or at least a very diminished form of it. But they said, we know you've been thinking about quitting lately and we'd really prefer you didn't do that. And I said, how could you possibly know that? I never told anybody that. I never even spoke those words out loud. It was a thought in my head. And they said, once you know who we are, you'll know how we know that. And then telepathically, I communicated future humans. And they said, so you know how we did that? I said, and then the conversation went in a lot of different directions. The vast majority of it was entirely telepathic. At some point, we just stopped using vocalized speech. And even though there were two individuals, all of the voices were the same voices. And the thing that blows my mind the most, and I remember Terry Lovelace talking about this when he met Betty Rubble, he just heard her voice in his head, in the same voice.

(32:29):

If you're not articulating something, it's not vibrating. Your malus, incus and staes to send this signal. Why does it still sound like that individual? It's mind blowing. But the three of us are communicating telepathically over the course of, I would guess, another 10, 15 minutes. A lot of other things are exchanged. I had questions. They had questions, but the main point of it was that they wanted, if I was okay with it, they're very polite, extremely polite. If I was okay with it, they said, we'll, black your eyes out and give you three things that will be important at a future time. What were they? I don't have access to it. They told me I wouldn't have access to it. They said, we need to put this information in your brain if you're okay with it. And by this point, it was very clear who they were, their abilities, hive, mind consciousness, interacting in this way.

(33:25):

I trust them and also realized that in various ways I had been interacting with them the whole time. That little voice in my head when I changed majors, a conversation they referenced right before I went to a conference at Rice University, where I thought it was just all in my mind. They referenced that conversation that we had just prior to me going to this conference. So I agreed, and that's exactly what happened. My eyes went black. I'm still staring at the same individual. In fact, by this point, it got very difficult to turn my head. I was kind of just mesmerized. I think that's the word. Some use. My eyes went black, and all of a sudden I feel all of this information coming in my brain and the other individual standing to my left occasionally would say, did you get that? Did you get that?

(34:15):

I'm like, and I can see it coming in. I have no idea what it is. It's in there. I can't access it. I agreed to have it put there. It's like you were partitioned or something. Yeah, maybe. But what's crazy is the reaction. This was at the beginning of a conference. There's a lot going on. There was a party Halloween party. Some of my best friends from the UFO community are there. We were going to jam tunes, play music, been wanting to play Travis Walton's, a guitar with Mike Hanks for all this time, and I stood up. Once they released me from this, slowly I could see this individual again or them in this manifested form. I turn, I get up, I walk through. It's now a very crowded room of people from this balcony. A woman puts her hand on my arm and says, are you okay?

(35:03):

I was going on. I couldn't lift my head. It felt like it was a 50 pound weight tied to my forehead. I walk out of the VIP room where this had happened on the balcony down to my room, which is about five doors away. Where is Olive this at a conference hotel in Phoenix, Phoenix, almost exactly one year ago. Yeah. Lay down on the bed, lay down backwards, feet, still on the ground, and slept for 13 hours straight. Wow. Wake up still with my feet on the ground, still with all my clothes on, and just started crying uncontrollably. Wow. Not because I was happy, sad, confused, nothing. Whatever happened. Did it

Jesse Michels (35:39):

Feel cathartic? Did you feel like you were letting out pain or anything else?

Speaker 3 (35:44):

I just couldn't control it. Interesting. I cried for hours. I had to be on a panel the next day with a bunch of people. How was that? Fine, because I controlled the crying. I went and got breakfast. Unfortunately, it was set right by the cash register where all of these people gather for their Sunday brunch, and I'm just losing my goddamn mind at this point, and there's all these people coming, walking, right. I was hoping to be back in a corner or something, didn't get that. Come back to my room, still crying, go down to give a book to an individual who was working at the registration table, and all of a sudden, the same individual kind of materializes in this empty hallway, walks past me, put his hand on my shoulder and says, are you okay? I go, that's all I could say. And all of the time this is happening is I'm processing, I'm doing what I'm supposed to. I'm getting the

Jesse Michels (36:38):

Information. The individual's name or

Speaker 3 (36:40):

Yeah. Yeah, I know both of their names. But again, these is what I mean when we talk about reconceptualizing, what it means to be human. It's not as simple as who is this individual?

Jesse Michels (36:58):

You think of them as almost, I

Speaker 3 (36:59):

Wasn't talking to that individual.

Jesse Michels (37:01):

They're generic emissaries of some

Speaker 3 (37:03):

I was talking to the same day

Jesse Michels (37:05):

Collective

Speaker 3 (37:06):

That knows my thoughts enough to reference to very specific moments of interaction or one, I was just thinking, I don't want to do this anymore as I'm washing my damn dishes. They knew that thought. Yeah. So we're not talking about individuals, but that individual who's a part of this reappeared as I'm walking through this hallway, takes that residual, whatever it was. Again, it wasn't negative. I wasn't scared by this. I wasn't upset by it. I just couldn't stop crying, but I needed to because I was on an important panel about two or three hours late.

Jesse Michels (37:42):

So

Speaker 3 (37:43):

It was an effort to sort of quell the ontological shock if there was a part of that. It's hard to say there wasn't, but also just whatever was happening, whatever reaction my brain had to being force fed information in this way in a very short period of time in a little primitive monkey brain that

Jesse Michels (38:06):

Couldn't handle it. So then you think they're walking among us?

Speaker 3 (38:10):

They absolutely are. Yeah.

Jesse Michels (38:12):

Wow. That's pretty wild.

Speaker 3 (38:15):

Yeah, it is. That one gets a little deep with people. I think there'll be a guttural response to everything I just said. The walking among us thing I think is a trigger point for a lot of people. Maybe that happens at a later time. Yeah, sure. That's fine. I think it's an obvious realization. I don't think we would need to say it.

Jesse Michels (38:37):

Yeah. Here's where things get really trippy. Everyone always asks, what's the connection between UFOs and psychic remote viewing? Now I know what you're thinking. A lot of the same people that are into one crazy thing, psychic research, are going to be into another aliens. But hear me out. There was actually a CIA psychic spy program to find Russian nuclear bases and American hostages that ran from 1972 to 1995. It was called Stargate. How do you think you developed your skills for, because you really seem to be the best remote viewer maybe ever.

Speaker 13 (39:12):

Functioning itself is a survival mechanism. In the beginning, the people who kept small tribe of humans alive were shaman.

David Grusch (39:21):

Certainly remote viewing is a thing. I mean, you saw the government from the seventies to at least the nineties when it was declassified, Stargate, Russell Targ and Hal Puthoff. And so the psychic spying thing was a thing and and I've talked to Hal and those guys, and they seem to have many, many cases of their intel basically being confirmed by traditional intel methodologies and modalities.

Jesse Michels (39:49):

A lot of these psychic spies started to pick up imagery and communications from what they considered alien beings. But there's actually a decent theoretical framework that connects remote viewing to Mike Masters's future Human Hypothesis.

Speaker 14 (40:02):

What's going on in our heads is not an algorithm. It's not following

Jesse Michels (40:06):

Rules. Nobel prize winning physicist Roger Penrose hypothesized that maybe the brain is just a room temperature quantum system. And that's how it collapses probabilistic quantum reality into the macroscopic, discreet classical reality that we see every day.

Speaker 6 (40:24):

We basically kind of collapsed Schrodinger's wave equation into a specific eigen state, and that's done by the brain, it's room

David Grusch (40:29):

Temperature, quantum system. And yeah, shout out to a friend of mine who's super into Roger Penrose and his theories on this

Jesse Michels (40:37):

Shout. Shout out friend.

David Grusch (40:38):

Shout out for the friend who loves weird consciousness suit. Love it.

Jesse Michels (40:41):

You got to introduce me. You holding out on me, man.

David Grusch (40:44):

He's good guy. Cool.

Jesse Michels (40:45):

In one interpretation that's gaining momentum, quantum computers might be able to send information back in time. In other words, they can access their future knowledge states. There's even been a lot of research into reversing qubit positions in quantum computations. So maybe these remote viewers brains were just super robust quantum computers and maybe they were sending their future UFO sightings back in time.

(41:10):

Maybe you have sort of prem memory of your future knowledge state and your glitching into that with these UFO experiences and sending the information back in time and memory works both ways.

David Grusch (41:23):

That kind of explains maybe the manifestation stuff too, because it's already Wow,

Speaker 6 (41:29):

Totally ordained. It's already preordained or it's like a time loop. So a classic example of a time loop is like Carl Young had this patient who was completely kind of materialist and inaccessible, not woo woo at all. And she comes in and she goes, I had this weird dream last night. It was a golden scare of beetle was given to me as a gift. And as she's telling the story, he sees a scare. A beetle come down the window sill. He takes it and he gives it to her as a gift, and it opens her up and it makes her believe in magic in the subconscious and in the power of this bigger self. That's the cost example of a time loop because it's something that shifts your attentional patterns in a slight way, in a way that causes the thing to manifest. If she hadn't had said the scare beetle story, he wouldn't have given her the scare beetle, and then it caused the thing to actually happen. So maybe the UFO experience, it happens in this dreamlike state. You're sort of glitching into the future. This thing kind of happens to you in this sort of weird quantum reality or whatever, but it affects your life at the margins in this way that might cause something else that's beautiful to manifest. Oh, interesting. Yeah,

David Grusch (42:43):

I've never Heard it put that way. That's pretty cool. Yeah,

Speaker 3 (42:46):

I don't know. Many argue, again, Eric Wargo argues this in his book Time Loops, that remote viewing is really just precognition, that they always want that deliverable, that end thing. They always need to see that. And are they just taking that information and relaying it back to their past self? You

Speaker 7 (43:02):

Have to go up a level, go up a level. It says you're wrong about time, you're wrong about space. You don't know where you are. You don't know what time it is. In fact, you don't know what time is. Now, when I talk to a physicist like Eric Davis, that's what he tells me. He says, those dimensions like space and time, they're arbitrary. There's something deeper that creates the illusion of space and time in humans.

Jesse Michels (43:37):

Your books are so well argued and so laid out, and you have all these case studies of contact experiences, and you show how the future human hypothesis is probably much stronger than extraterrestrial hypothesis than sleep paralysis or hallucinations or all these other outcomes, razor explanations. The only issue that I take with it is this idea of future almost feels like based on our current kind of myopic understanding of time. And when I went to Jacques Val's place, he had books about the ability to sort of manipulate time and travel through time and the fourth dimension and the fifth dimension. And so are these being sort of transtemporal in nature and maybe they're ascended versions of us where time doesn't just work the way it does in our case, and I hate using the word quantum is so overused, but there is this idea of sort of hilbert space and all the subatomic spookiness, if it does have to do with time weirdness, is there some layer that we don't quite have access to and we're living in a kind of classical compressed form. And so it's not really future humans, it's like ascended humans or something.

Speaker 3 (44:54):

Well, yes, I think so. And I don't know if those are necessarily mutually exclusive. And it could come down to, I'd never thought about this before, but listening to you say this would kind of make sense that maybe the same dichotomy where time doesn't work or exist the way we think it does, because our evolution has forced us into this pigeonholed reality where we can only experience it linearly because we have these brains that have to exist in these environments that have been trained to do so. But maybe that exists at the macroscopic level too.

David Grusch (45:29):

Granted, millions of people have purportedly either seen something or have had some kind of interaction, which I can't tell you either way if that happened, but they believe it, right? John Max stuff. And so it's prevalent, but not prevalent at the same time, and it's this little shadow game of showing a little bit, but most of the activity is kind of below the noise floor, and it drove me crazy trying to understand what is going on here.

Speaker 15 (45:58):

Reports of flying saucers are nothing new. From the beginning of recorded time, men have been seen unexplainable things in the sky

Jesse Michels (46:06):

From Mesopotamia to Egypt to Roswell. People have seen unexplained objects in the sky throughout human history, which makes sense because if time travel is possible in the future, that means it's always been possible past primitive rituals. And tribes often deal with sort of cranial deformation to make a person look a little bit more like a gray alien or

Speaker 3 (46:30):

Something. Yeah, intentional cranial modification. It's ubiquitous throughout the world where you're binding their head with the cranial wrapping or the cranial boarding. The mayo would just stick the kid's head between two boards and squish it. And there was even one group, a paper by Gerson and Gerson from 1995 where they interviewed them and said, why do you do this? And they said, because our ancestors were instructed by the gods to do this both more like them. So yeah, you have to wonder, is there a connection because the cranial facial form that you get from this is very reminiscent of what we understand as part of our cultural knowledge now as being a part of this great alien physiology.

Speaker 16 (47:15):

So continuing from what you're saying, are we safe as a human species? I mean, I might have watched too many movies, but let's say we do have a captive non-human species somewhere. We don't know. I don't know if it's confirmed or not, but let's say we do. How do we know that they're kind is not coming back?

David Grusch (47:35):

Yeah, I mean, we can only through external observation in a humanistic lens, kind of in C intent of its malice or benevolence. I mean, if the universe certainly has a yin and yang, so they're certainly dark with light. So there's certainly going to be some malevolence and at least some of the things that some of my interview subjects told me about sounded malevolent to me. But there seems to be a lot of neutrality and benevolence as well. So I think it's a mixed bag. It's just like humans, right? Our humans are generally kind, but we also kill animals for food. And if you were a cow, you'd be like, these evil humans are going to chop me up and eat me, but we're not actually benevolent, or excuse me, malevolent as a whole, but some lower sentient species would see us as malevolent

Speaker 3 (48:21):

Intent is really difficult to pin down, especially because as we were talking about earlier, you're talking about intent with a lot of different groups. I think I mentioned earlier, what's the intent of humans? You can't just group us together as one entity and say, we all have the same reason for doing things and the same behaviors, and you multiply that across time, and there's going to be a lot of different reasons for doing things.

Jesse Michels (48:44):

Maybe we're in the middle of a cosmic timeline war. On the one side, we have an advanced civilization who have ascended from us in the future. They live in a transtemporal dimension, a dimension beyond the bounds of time and are struggling to communicate with human beings. On the other hand, you have forces wanting to mine human consciousness like a natural resource through distractions and engineering tribalism to enslave us, keep us violently scapegoating each other. The cycle continues and they continue to mine.

Speaker 3 (49:14):

That is, I would say, the principle theme and the most recent book is that exact question, the different timelines, the intent, who's benefiting from that timeline over another one. There's a lot of really interesting questions that stem from that. And then you have, for the last couple of years, you had Ross Colhard and Frank Milburn talking about this cataclysm thing.

Speaker 17 (49:34):

You've got the continuing nut job in North Korea where he's trying to demonstrate a capacity to launch ICBMs continental United States, and then you've got China, you've got the ever present risk of China.

Jesse Michels (49:45):

Also, UFOs showing up more around the creation of our nuclear programs and attempting to monitor shutdown, or in certain cases activate nuclear facilities, would make complete sense in the context of future humans trying to maintain their ideal timeline and maybe even ensure their own existence.

Speaker 3 (50:04):

Every generation thought it was the last. It always thought that the end times are coming, the end is nine. It's sort of this epic cliche throughout human history, but there does seem to be almost a need for it, and I can't help but wonder if we're on the precipice of a massive revolution in human consciousness where we either evolve there together or we bifurcate and still evolve there, but in a very different way.

Speaker 5 (50:33):

The sacred knowledge has never been lost, only been covered with myriads of confusion and complicated whatever is going on, but it is still here.

Jesse Michels (50:46):

Humans tend to report seeing UFOs when they're in certain heightened states of consciousness. Maybe that's when they're closest to their future selves. It's like Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel. God's finger is extended to its maximum, but Adam's finger is slightly contracted. The point is that God is always there, but the decision is left to reach out. Maybe we have the same relationship with our future selves and it's on us to reach out.

Speaker 18 (51:16):

The fact that it recorded sadism would interest me.

Speaker 19 (51:19):

I continue.

Speaker 18 (51:26):

What interests me is that it recorded approximately 18 hours of it.

Speaker 19 (51:38):

That is interesting, isn't it?