2022-06 - 7NEWS Spotlight Professor Garry Nolan / Ross Coulthart
Disclaimer: This is a machine generated transcript and does include errors. Please check the original if necessary.
Source Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR0JtbuLhPo
Garry Nolan (00:00:01):
Okay, you're going to Photoshop this. Make me look like Chris Hemsworth at the end. Right.
Ross Coulthart (00:00:16):
Professor Gary Nolan is one of those precocious minds that when you meet them, you know, you're in the presence of awesome, incredible intelligence. He's a Stanford University based professor of immunology. At the moment, he's a nominee for the Nobel Prize. He's one of the most reputable immunologists on the planet, extremely well regarded. He's got multiple patents, huge numbers of papers that have been published in his name. He's got two companies listed on the NASDAQ because of successful inventions that he's made. He's just all around a complete total overachiever. And one of the things that I loved in meeting him was his candor, the fact that he was so prepared. He's very fast becoming one of the public faces of U-F-O-U-A-P commentary. He's decided to take a very public profile because he's actually an experiencer himself. So when I asked him about the significance of the US government's admissions that have been made about UAPs in the last 12 months, I was quite shocked and surprised at what he told me.
(00:01:28):
Set to go. Professor, what do we know for sure about UAPs?
Garry Nolan (00:01:35):
Well, I think the thing that we know for sure is that we don't know what it is, but we do know that there is something here, something that I think defies explanation, but that something can be studied from a scientific viewpoint.
Ross Coulthart (00:01:50):
There's a genuine mystery.
Garry Nolan (00:01:52):
Yes.
Ross Coulthart (00:01:53):
How significant is it that the United States government came out a year ago and admitted that unidentified aerial phenomena are real? Whatever they are, they're a real mystery.
Garry Nolan (00:02:05):
I think it tells us that first of all, the government has been lying to us for the last 60 or 70 years. I think it gives solace to people who have been told that they were crazy to have been believing or seeing this. So that to me, at least from the personal point of view, from the human point of view, that's one of the most important things.
Ross Coulthart (00:02:26):
I know this is speculative, but why do you think the US governments lied?
Garry Nolan (00:02:31):
I think it's because frankly, they didn't understand what it was and nobody wanted to admit that, first of all. But second, they didn't want to admit that they didn't have control over our airspace. We didn't have control over our own airspace.
Ross Coulthart (00:02:43):
So it's as simple as, say for example, the US Air Force doesn't like admitting that whatever these objects are, they're vastly superior to what you've got. And frankly, they don't know how to explain them.
Garry Nolan (00:02:55):
Yes. And what confuses me is if I were the Air Force and I saw something like this, I would want to drive one of them. Right. If I was a fighter pilot who wanted to be in the fanciest best next fighter jet, why wouldn't I want to understand and push to understand how objects like this could maneuver?
Ross Coulthart (00:03:14):
That's what Dave Fravor said. He said he wanted to fly the tech.
Garry Nolan (00:03:17):
Yes, yes, that's right.
Ross Coulthart (00:03:19):
So the government's been lying, but do you think there's been a coverup?
Garry Nolan (00:03:23):
Absolutely. I mean, there has been both a coverup as well as a disinformation campaign to make people look like they were crazy. See,
Ross Coulthart (00:03:33):
This is amazing to me to hear a scientist of your reputation saying this. I mean, you are one of the most eminent immunologists on the planet. You're a Nobel Prize nominee. You are somebody highly respected in your area of medicine. Is it a dangerous thing for you to admit that you think these things about the phenomenon?
Garry Nolan (00:03:54):
I think it's dangerously necessary. I think that this is the kind of thing that if we continue to ignore it, if we continue to ignore the potential danger of what it might represent, we are putting ourselves at risk both to what it might do to us sometime in the future, but then ignoring the physics of what these things are capable of doing.
Ross Coulthart (00:04:18):
Let's talk about it. What is it?
Garry Nolan (00:04:23):
I wish I knew. And of all the people that I've spoken with on the inside, there's really very little unanimity about what it is except for that whatever it is appears to be so far advanced from us that it beggars understanding.
Ross Coulthart (00:04:42):
So you don't think it's human?
Garry Nolan (00:04:43):
I'm sure it's not human.
Ross Coulthart (00:04:45):
Is it intelligent?
Garry Nolan (00:04:46):
Yes. It certainly acts it. And in some cases it seems to have a sense of humor.
Ross Coulthart (00:04:51):
So Gary, the implications of what you're saying there are enormous, aren't they? You're suggesting that there is a highly advanced civilization that is intelligent. It's not human and it's real.
Garry Nolan (00:05:04):
Yeah. I almost hesitate even to call it a civilization. A civilization implies a lot of interacting parts that are moving towards some sort of goal. I couldn't even say whether or not what it is that is being observed is something like that.
Ross Coulthart (00:05:19):
Now, the classic explanation for years, and the reason everybody giggles is because they're immediately thinking of little green men from Zita Reticuli. Do you think the highest probability is that whatever they are, they are extraterrestrial?
Garry Nolan (00:05:34):
I don't think so. No. I think it's whatever it is. It's been here a long time and certainly it's been here longer than we've been civilized. So at the very least, who really owns the planet? Who was here first? I'm not sure it was us.
Ross Coulthart (00:05:49):
Now your good mates with Lou Elizondo, who we've interviewed who was the former head of the Pentagon UFO program. And Lou has suggested publicly that whatever this is, the extraterrestrial explanation doesn't quite explain it.
Garry Nolan (00:06:04):
Yeah, it could explain it, but you could equally, and this is Jacques Vale's original hypothesis that he got in a lot of trouble decades ago over the interdimensional hypothesis that whatever this is, if you imagine an expanded universe conceptually, the multiverse that everybody talks about could be just as easily coming from over there as it is from the other side of our own universe.
Ross Coulthart (00:06:34):
You are a scientist. You deal in data. A lot of people watching this are going to be incredibly skeptical. They're going to be saying, what does he know? Where's the evidence? Where's the data to prove what you say?
Garry Nolan (00:06:47):
So the data, frankly, is in the videos first of all that we've all seen now by now. And if you haven't seen them, I'd go look up the Nimitz UFO encounter videos. The other evidence is in the thousands of reports of things that people have seen. Now that to me, you can call it anecdotal, but to me, I call it preliminary data. It basically raises the question of what is it and what can we do about it or how can we study it? And so perhaps the best evidence that is thought to exist is the stuff that is being held in government hands that many people, again anecdotally have come forward and said, this exists and it's not from here.
Ross Coulthart (00:07:38):
Now the thing I find fascinating is you've been kind of embraced a little bit by the black world. You've had the CIA come knocking on your door asking you to actually do tests on people who have been exposed to UAPs. Correct? Yes. What can you tell me about that?
Garry Nolan (00:07:56):
Well, the reason apparently that they came to me is because we had developed instrumentation for blood analysis that nobody else in the world had. And so they came to me for that, not because I had some prior interest in UFOs. They came to me for that. And then I guess the embracing came because most of the other scientists with whom they had met ran away. And I was just drawn towards this. But I also found it fascinating to speculate about what all of this might mean and what it might be. So I got brought in further and further.
Ross Coulthart (00:08:32):
So in your studies, I understand, I've spoken to some people who I suspect might have been part of your study, but there are pilots, for example, who've engaged what they believe were craft off the east coast of America, and they were exposed to what they think is some kind of radiation. Have you been able to determine if any of these people have suffered injuries?
Garry Nolan (00:08:55):
In some cases, not the pilots especially, but for some of the ground personnel, we were able to see damage in their brain tissue. That was considerable.
Ross Coulthart (00:09:07):
So this is injuries suffered by people and is it directly attributable to the ufo?
Garry Nolan (00:09:13):
The UAPs, they claim it. Now, again, many of the people viewing will walk away saying that I said something happened. No, I am relaying what it is that was told to me. The confirmatory evidence that I have are the MRIs that basically show that anybody could look at repeatedly and see that there was damage.
Ross Coulthart (00:09:36):
And when you say damage, what sort of damage?
Garry Nolan (00:09:39):
You would call it a sclerosis. It would be seen as a scar tissue in the body or the brain dead
Ross Coulthart (00:09:45):
Tissue. So it comes out as white blo,
Garry Nolan (00:09:47):
A white blob, white weed, generally call it white matter disease.
Ross Coulthart (00:09:51):
Now, one of the known examples of this that is public is there's a fellow called Thomas Winterton who's featured on the Skin Walker Ranch TV show. And he allegedly was exposed to some kind of radiation or energy, and you could actually see on his MRIA difference in his brain.
Garry Nolan (00:10:12):
Oh yeah. Well, that was a horrific event. I mean, not only was the brain matter damaged, but there was an edema across the back of his head. But I think in this case, this particular case, this was probably more a Havana syndrome like interaction where somebody with an energy weapon pointed it at them. And as has been, I think also talked about on that TV show, we were able to determine the relative strength of the energy based on how far into the brain
Ross Coulthart (00:10:46):
Traveled. So the other thing that you've been roped into is analyzing samples. And there's one case I'm fascinated with, which is the Council Bluffs Iowa event in December, 1977, and tell me if I'm wrong, police and 11 different witnesses from four different groups came across a pile of molten slag that they saw fall from a craft of some kind,
Garry Nolan (00:11:14):
A blinking craft,
Ross Coulthart (00:11:16):
A blinking craft. It was still bubbling and hot. The police testified to this as well. They were on the scene and everybody says it came from this craft.
Garry Nolan (00:11:28):
And I have the original Polaroids from the police of the event. And quite a bit of investigation was done back at the time on this where they had looked at the metals, and actually it was beautifully looked at because they looked at all of the possible normal ways that this might have occurred. Is there a nearby foundry
Ross Coulthart (00:11:52):
There? A nearby foundry. But how do you get four by six feet of slag, right? Steaming slag,
Garry Nolan (00:11:58):
Right? You would have to have dragged it, and you certainly aren't going to put it in any kind of balloon and then floated over a park and then drop it.
Ross Coulthart (00:12:07):
This was molten steel M
Garry Nolan (00:12:09):
Molten metal. I mean, it was molten iron. And so one of the things it was looked at to see whether or not it was steel, it was not steel, it had iron in it, nickel a few other impurities. But what I found most interesting in our analysis of it, although we found nothing unusual about isotopic ratios or elements that you wouldn't normally find in metals, like this was what we would call the in homogeneity of the material, meaning it was in completely mixed. So if you looked in one part of the material, you found all the same elements, but the ratios were different than if you looked in another area.
Ross Coulthart (00:12:43):
The thing I find fascinating about that case is you've got some kind of material metal being squirted belched at by a craft that is witnessed by many people.
Garry Nolan (00:12:55):
And it's not the only story like this. In fact, there are multiple stories of these craft dropping stuff. In fact, there's a case nearby that when I get the time, Jacques and I will visit with exactly the same issue multiple times. Seen in Fresno, these objects, and one of them apparently dropped something right on these people's driveway.
Ross Coulthart (00:13:18):
I mean, a lot of people might be chuckling here. I mean, why would a spacecraft, let's assume it's aliens or some kind of advanced civilization, why would they drop metal on a driveway? Well,
Garry Nolan (00:13:29):
I don't know. And I am just as equally bemused by the whole thing, and I can understand the skeptical nature of everybody around. But it is, so let's imagine, let's say that for instance, this was an object of UFO or et cetera, but maybe this is part of the propulsion system and maybe when you're done with enough of the propulsion or something has gone wrong, some imbalance, you essentially squirt it out the back and offload it. I mean, it does though lend itself to the question of, well, how indifferent might this object or the thing running it be to somebody below having a hot liquid metal dropped on their head?
Ross Coulthart (00:14:14):
Or could it just be that ET has a sense of humor and loves the idea of driving a scientist like you Betty with yes.
Garry Nolan (00:14:19):
Curiosity? Well, there certainly, there's certainly a little bit of that. I often wonder, and Jacque and I talk about this sometimes, this is Jacques
Ross Coulthart (00:14:25):
Vallee,
Garry Nolan (00:14:26):
Jacques Vallee, how much of what is being done is them just leading us around by the nose for fun, but continue to do it having fun.
Ross Coulthart (00:14:35):
Sure. And the third object that I understand you've been involved in analyzing is a sample of material which is known as the bismuth magnesium material. Have you been able to reach any conclusions about that?
Garry Nolan (00:14:50):
It a layered material of bismuth, a little bit of lead and magnesium? I've looked at the ratios of the isotopes there, and there's nothing unusual about it, but I will be getting a hold of a much, much larger sample of it that will allow me to do some other kinds of tests.
Ross Coulthart (00:15:11):
One of the things that's been speculated about this particular piece of bismuth magnesium is that if you put a wave form through it, I know this sounds daffy, it will levitate.
Garry Nolan (00:15:23):
I have heard of this result. I've not seen it with my own eyes. Have you tried? No, because the wave form that they needed to put through it is te hertz waves.
Ross Coulthart (00:15:35):
And that was why Tom Delong's to the Stars Academy did the Rado, the research agreement with the US Army because they're the only people that have got the Ertz transmitter that you'd need. Do we know whether that research has been done, though?
Garry Nolan (00:15:50):
I'm not allowed to talk about that.
Ross Coulthart (00:15:51):
Aha. This is getting interesting. But the thing that fascinates me about that is some of the material that to the Stars Academy was saying that it was going to be researching was material that was provided to it by the US government.
Garry Nolan (00:16:11):
Yes.
Ross Coulthart (00:16:13):
And if all this stuff about UAPs is rubbish, why was the US government keeping samples of flying sources and flying discs?
Garry Nolan (00:16:22):
I mean, the only thing that I, well, first, because of all of the disinformation that has gone on over the years, it is just like what you're saying about the aliens is somebody basically wasting our time by throwing something out that they know is irrelevant or just basically a hoax. But that said, there are many, many now stories of real materials that are on the inside. And my push, and I think this is to the extent that people in the audience want this as a subject matter to go away, is you want a definitive statement from the government that the material does or does not exist. If it does exist, then I don't even need for that to be given to anybody in the public. But you would want a confirmatory statement that it does exist.
Ross Coulthart (00:17:20):
Lou Elizondo has said publicly, as have others, that he believes the United States government is in possession of exotic materials. Dr. Eric Davis, whom I know very eminent physicist, has also said that he believes that the US government has recovered craft. Do you think that the United States government is secretly holding technology, non-human technology?
Garry Nolan (00:17:51):
The best way I can put it is that I can see no reason that any of these people would lie, especially Eric Davis and Lou and in let's say, more private conversations that I've had with them. I've pressed them on the issue. I've said, look, I'm putting myself out there. I am taking your word for it, and I'm putting myself out there and pushing the notion that this needs to be studied. So in my heart, maybe it's more of a hope that it exists because I'm excited about the potential of what we can learn.
Ross Coulthart (00:18:25):
If it's true that the United States government really does have a spacecraft, an alien spacecraft of some kind tucked away in a cave at area 51, it means that while we may not know how to operate it or how to reverse engineer it, we might have the secret of anti-gravity of free energy.
Garry Nolan (00:18:47):
Yeah, I mean, so for the audience, when you look at an object that can move like this, at least two things are three things are occurring. One, the objects can move and accelerate to 5,000 miles an hour instantly and decelerate. So whoever is in there didn't get squished. And so therefore, they have control over momentum as well as gravity. These things can hover. So for me, the open question is, okay, what's the propulsion source? Because as a physicist and other physicist has published, if you were to take an object, assume it's one ton of weight, and you were to move it instantaneously from 50 feet to 14 miles into space, which there has been observations of this, the total energy required for that instantaneous acceleration and deceleration is more than the nuclear output basically of the whole planet for a year. And they're doing it apparently every second. And
Ross Coulthart (00:19:47):
This is real. It's
Garry Nolan (00:19:48):
Happening. Yes, it is observed visually by individuals, at least the instantaneous disappearance of the thing, but then it is observed by radar and other electronic means to be occurring.
Ross Coulthart (00:20:03):
It's interesting because one of the most important bases that America has for monitoring things in orbit and things on the ground that might be signs of ICBM launches is pine gap in Australia. And there are other bases like Northwest Cape in Western Australia that's been the location for some very, very weird paranormal phenomena, giant craft, even military records recording observations of spheres over the base at times of acute death heightening during the Middle East War, the Chinese are taking an interest in this very sensitive Australian military base that is actually used by America to contact its nuclear submarines in the event of nuclear war. What do you know about China's secret UFO program?
Garry Nolan (00:20:55):
Right?
Ross Coulthart (00:20:55):
Do you think they know? Do you think the Chinese and the Russians know more
Garry Nolan (00:20:59):
Than the Chinese have admitted that they have a program to investigate this openly? They have admitted that.
Ross Coulthart (00:21:04):
Do you think they've recovered the same technology that the US has?
Garry Nolan (00:21:07):
I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, Brazil has had events. Italy has had events, Russia has had events. Don't think they're avoiding China.
Ross Coulthart (00:21:16):
There's a cold war going on behind the scenes, isn't there? The Russians and the Chinese want to know what the Americans know, and the Russians want to know. Sorry. The Americans want to know what the Russians and Chinese know.
Garry Nolan (00:21:26):
Right. Well, in science, when I have a competitor that I'm having lunch with, we are both probing and trying to get the others' information so we can put together the answer first.
Ross Coulthart (00:21:41):
You explained to me, sir, as a scientist, if a country could master the technology that lies behind this phenomenon, how important is that technology?
Garry Nolan (00:21:53):
Well, I mean, it's a game changer, obviously, but it's also, I mean, individually a threat. So if you have anti-gravity and you give it to everybody, anybody could go out to the asteroid belt and push something our way and cause a big problem. If you have access to the supposed levels of energy that these things require to move around, everybody's got a bomb that of dangerous levels of consequence. So if you're asking questions, why might the US government want to limit knowledge of this? They might have a perfectly good reason for doing so, and that's it, that they realize that it's dangerous to play with this.
Ross Coulthart (00:22:36):
But do you think part of the issue now is that the game's up, the Americans know that it's too well known about now? There's been too many verifications of this phenomenon to ignore it?
Garry Nolan (00:22:45):
Yeah, I mean, the short answer is yes. And there's an avalanche of information that's coming that we're seeing it day by day, right? I mean, we have, as you know, the US government coming out and saying, we now are creating an internal secret channel for people to break their NDAs and come forward and give information to Congress. They've publicly put in the record now for funding to bring, it says exactly this cadres of scientists to the table who can have classification to study this. So they're basically admitting we don't have the answers, but we want to bring scientists in. Now, I'm going to take a little bit of credit for that because I actually wrote a white paper to these internal groups that said exactly this, that we need to bring in scientists in a classified manner to work on this.
Ross Coulthart (00:23:42):
So you don't think the Americans have secretly cracked and got a working spacecraft at a
Garry Nolan (00:23:47):
Cave somewhere? I don't think so, but who knows if they have kudos,
Ross Coulthart (00:23:55):
It'd be pretty outrageous if they've kept it quiet for this long.
Garry Nolan (00:23:58):
Well, yes, it would be. I mean, but I don't know. I don't know what to say to that. I mean, it's,
Ross Coulthart (00:24:06):
It'd be the holy grail it have signed discovery.
Garry Nolan (00:24:08):
Yes, it would be. Well, I mean, if they have cracked gravity, it means they have an understanding of gravity that we don't even today have in our current physics. We don't even understand gravity today with all of the equations that get thrown around by physicists.
Ross Coulthart (00:24:22):
So why isn't this more mainstream? I mean, why is this still such a stigmatized issue? Why is it that in a private company, when one admits that one has an interest in UAPs unidentified aerial phenomena, there's normally somebody in the group who makes a silly smirk and talks about little green men. Why do we do that?
Garry Nolan (00:24:42):
Well, I think years of decades, frankly, of this kind of disinformation and purposeful diminution of people's opinions has had its logical outcome,
Ross Coulthart (00:24:52):
But it's unjustified.
Garry Nolan (00:24:54):
I think it's totally unjustified and from a scientific point of view, and because I of course have been approached by scientific colleagues that said, Gary, you're going to ruin your reputation with this. And my immediate answer is, what? Scientists takes a possible explanation off the table, especially when you've got so many people, credible individuals saying that this is something that's happening, so why not investigate it? And anyway, it's my time. So why is it your business to tell me what I should be doing?
Ross Coulthart (00:25:21):
Why do you think there is such hostility to the idea of investigating the possibility of non-human intelligent life?
Garry Nolan (00:25:28):
Well, that would put us not at the top of the food chain, first of all. And from a religious point of view, it's a context clash that, okay, well, if these things exist and they're there, where do they fit in the hierarchy to angels? And God, if that's your religion, let's
Ross Coulthart (00:25:48):
Talk about that. Do you think that possibly what we're talking about here might be what our religions describe as God
Garry Nolan (00:25:57):
Or angels and demons, so that you need an explanation for something, so you put it into whatever your current mythology is?
Ross Coulthart (00:26:05):
Because the suggestion that's being made by a lot of people who claim to have had experiences with the phenomenon is that whoever they are, this superior intelligence is tinkering with human DNA.
Garry Nolan (00:26:18):
Yeah. I've had a lot of people come to me about the whole DNA thing, and I think there's a lot more ways you can guide a species other than directly interacting with its DNA. I mean, look at what we've done with dogs over just a few tens of thousands of years.
Ross Coulthart (00:26:33):
Can I ask you one thing? I read a Hungarian scientist's paper, he's a mathematician, and he looked at the probabilities of DNA sequences, and he suggested that there are anomalies in human DNA that suggest some kind of intervention.
Garry Nolan (00:26:47):
Is this the wow signal paper? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Ross Coulthart (00:26:49):
What's your take on that?
Garry Nolan (00:26:50):
Well, mathematically it's sound. The only problem is that if you are, let's say, if you're a reader of Richard Dawkins and the selfish gene and how complexity can arise out of selection, the counter to the mathematics is that selection can create something which is statistically low. The thing that I find most interesting though about that the wow signal in the DNA code is how ordered it is in terms of if somebody were to sit down and say, this is how I want to design something. I'm going to design it in a nicely ordered way. It is strangely ordered, which the only way you can I think, countenance it is to say there's something about the structure of life that required that order. So you either created the order because you designed it, or the structure of life required it. And that's why it came out to be looking like somebody made it.
Ross Coulthart (00:27:51):
Because when you think about Christian theology, Islam, a lot of the great religions, all of it's about superior beings coming from the sky. There's often, as in Ezekiel, in the Bible descriptions of strange craft, a lot of it does sound like UFOs UAPs.
Garry Nolan (00:28:11):
Well, Jacques Vallee actually took that approach in his book, the Wonders in the Sky, where he went back literally into the libraries to get the original documents from the scientists and statesmen of the day who had recorded these events, which if you basically just changed the, or translated the words, they were basically had encountered UFOs at the time, shields in the sky, et cetera. And then Diana Salka on the other side of things has looked at this from the standpoint. What got her interested was she was actually originally studying the Ecstasies of the Saints. She's a theologian of Catholicism. She was studying the ecstasies of the saints, and very often their interaction with angels, as they said. And what she found fascinating is that many of these angels showed up as white orbs. And then it kind of clicked in her head that this was the same story of people who were seeing UFOs, white orbs that would come and interact with them. So here you have a religious tradition, a couple of thousand years old, very well-written where we lauded people and turned them into saints for their interaction with orbs of light. And yet when you turn around and hear it from the neighbor down the street, they're ridiculous.
Ross Coulthart (00:29:29):
How much of your position on the phenomenon has been informed by your own personal experience?
Garry Nolan (00:29:37):
I mean, so I did see an object very close up when I was a kid. I didn't know what it was. Can you
Ross Coulthart (00:29:44):
Tell me that story?
Garry Nolan (00:29:45):
So I was a paper boy. This was in Connecticut, Windsor, Connecticut, and there was a man at the end of one of the streets who needed his paper by five 30 in the morning. And so I would always be there. So I knew about the time it was dark, it was March or so, I delivered his paper. Then there was basically a cops of woods through which I had to walk to get to the next street, to walk the other way, delivered the papers there because it was March. There were no leaves on the trees. And as I was walking through the woods, I could see my shadow in front of me and the shadows of the branches around me, which first kind of caught me off guard because I didn't remember the moon being out. But what was more, I guess, dramatic was that the shadows began to move as I was walking, and they were moving as if there was a light behind me that was moving, which caused me to look up and see an object right at the top of the trees, go right over my head silently. Now,
Ross Coulthart (00:30:53):
That sort of object,
Garry Nolan (00:30:54):
It just was a kind of roundish object with, I remember kind of like four or five whiteish lights pointing down, but I think, I can't even remember how old I was, 10 or 12. Were you, whatever it was, you scared? No, I wasn't scared because I didn't know what it was. And I didn't immediately say to myself, I mean, this would've been 19 72, 73, and I didn't say, oh, there was a U ffo because I didn't even know what a UFO was. And it really wasn't until about 20 years or so later that as I paid attention as anybody does to movies and things and UFOs, and it kind of clicked in my head. I said, wait, was that what I saw? And so that story is the story of many people. And so I now look at that as let's, I would call it again, preliminary evidence, preliminary data. I said, okay, well, that's worth understanding. And if other people are seeing the same thing, that's a kind of confirmation. So why are these people being derided for just reporting what they've seen? Because if it is something else like that, it should interest any scientist in my mind.
Ross Coulthart (00:32:12):
You have had other experiences too, haven't you?
Garry Nolan (00:32:15):
Yeah.
Ross Coulthart (00:32:16):
Can you talk about those?
Garry Nolan (00:32:18):
This is probably the more unusual one. And again, I'm hardly the only individual to have had this is you wake up as a young boy. I would've been probably six or seven because it was in our first house that my parents had bought in Windsor of little men in the bedroom. I was awake. I knew they were there. I could see them
Ross Coulthart (00:32:44):
Scared.
Garry Nolan (00:32:47):
I can't remember being scared, but I remember telling my parents the next day about it.
Ross Coulthart (00:32:53):
Could it have been a dream?
Garry Nolan (00:32:54):
It could have been a dream, but So here's the interesting thing. I saw these little men in the bedroom, and it went on for I guess a few weeks, and then it just stopped so promptly forgot about it. But what was critical was about 20 years, again, later, actually, here in Palo Alto, I was at a used bookstore and I pulled out a book, and I am pretty sure it was either John Maxx or Whitley Striver's book, communion. Communion. And there on the front cover was, and I can feel the hair on my arms going up was what I saw.
Ross Coulthart (00:33:41):
That's the classic gray alien
Garry Nolan (00:33:43):
Face. And I remember I dropped the book because it was like, whoa. And it was a revelation, I guess is the, but then I'm also, I've read young and the collective unconscious, and so part of my self explanation for what it was that I was seeing was just some collective unconscious genetic memory that we all have. It has nothing to do with anything from outside.
Ross Coulthart (00:34:18):
So being a good scientist, you can't say it was ET
Garry Nolan (00:34:21):
Can't. Absolutely not.
Ross Coulthart (00:34:23):
Yeah. It made you think.
Garry Nolan (00:34:24):
It made me think, I mean, and I think being a scientist is all about being willing to ask the difficult question.
Ross Coulthart (00:34:33):
Has that informed your willingness to look at the possibility that the phenomenon is some kind of life full?
Garry Nolan (00:34:39):
Absolutely. I mean, what could be more interesting about studying life on this planet and how our ecology has been constructed than to compare it to the ecology of another planet? Two things are always more important than one in science, that if you can find a confirmation that life has started elsewhere, it means first of all, that we are not unique. And then begs the question of all of the other things that we're seeing out there. How many other places has life originated?
Ross Coulthart (00:35:16):
You had another experience in London that I thought was quite important,
Garry Nolan (00:35:19):
Right? Yeah, that was an interesting one because for no good reason, lying there in the bed, in the hotel, I woke up with my entire body buzzing, like I was sitting in an electric water bath, and I've been in Japan, for instance, where electric water bats are kind of the thing. This was a very different experience. Everything from the tip of my fingers down to the tips of my toes, ears. I could feel this buzzing. I could hear it. But at the moment of waking up, there were, and I can't even call them words, there was say words in my head that said, this is how you connect.
Ross Coulthart (00:36:05):
Whoa.
Garry Nolan (00:36:07):
But that wasn't the word, but that's the best translation of the moment. And after about 10 to 15 seconds of this, and this is why I don't think it was physiologic necessarily or some sort of odd physiologic effect, I just said, this has to stop. Make it stop. And it did.
Ross Coulthart (00:36:30):
That suggests to me that the phenomenon's trying to engage with you.
Garry Nolan (00:36:35):
I mean, it could be, but again, I can't imagine why I would be so important that it would take any time to do so.
Ross Coulthart (00:36:44):
Can I ask you this? There are scientists, people in defense, people in intelligence in government that I've spoken to in Australia who've all admitted to me they've had weird, I guess you could call them paranormal experiences. Some of them are UAPs, some of them involve entities such as what you're talking about. What's your advice to people like those?
Garry Nolan (00:37:10):
I think the advice is don't be ashamed. First of all, don't feel that you need to come forward with it. But I think the advice is others have seen it, so you can believe that you're not crazy. I think that's the first thing to do. But then take solace in the fact that the US government and other governments are now coming forward and saying that, well, you know what? This is real and it's worth study.
Ross Coulthart (00:37:42):
The one thing I've learned from reading that quantum physics is that there's a hell of a lot of science that we still don't understand. Like Newtonian ideas of physics no longer really have much application when you start talking about the quantum world. True.
Garry Nolan (00:37:59):
Yes, absolutely. Well, I mean, for thousands of years, even going back to Plato, we would think of the atom as an object. We think of even up until when I was a graduate student, I mean even not a graduate student, a student in college, we would think of them as solid forms, but now we realize they're all waves, and that a particle doesn't exist in any one place. It actually exists in a super position in many places at once.
Ross Coulthart (00:38:29):
Now, one thing you've been doing is you've been looking at the brains of experiences you've been using RI imaging, right? Have you reached any conclusions about whether people who've been exposed to the phenomenon have characteristics?
Garry Nolan (00:38:43):
So I kind of turned the question around in a different way. So what we've done is looking at these individuals, we've found that there is a bundle of nerves at the head of the caudate and putamen in their basal ganglia. This is an important area of the brain that has to do with sensory perceptions and actually integration of that information for goal seeking. The executive function says, I want to do something. It gets passed down to this area. This area says, well, what in my environment do I need to access or know about to accomplish that goal? And then it creates a set of goals, sub goals, to accomplish the desired outcome. So this area of the brain, and especially this one area at the head of the callam, had overdeveloped interactions compared to normals. There was a density of neuronal structure
Ross Coulthart (00:39:40):
There. Is that a positive thing?
Garry Nolan (00:39:42):
Well, it's a positive thing insofar as the individuals that we were working with would be considered high functioning individuals. These are all people who came from the intelligence agencies. They pilots, high level physicists, basically smart people. And so from that standpoint, it was fascinating because that said that just the study of people who might've had these interactions revealed something about the human brain that people at the time didn't know, but now has been confirmed not only by us, but by multiple other laboratories who have nothing to do with the paranormal aspects of this, but have shown that the call data is involved in intuition and intelligence. Now, why it's important is that is intimately involved with perception. And so if perception is about seeing something that's in front of you and not ignoring it, then maybe you have part of the solution why certain people see something that others don't. And we all know the story, one of the gorilla walking across the stage.
Ross Coulthart (00:40:53):
So these people who are having these experiences with unidentified aerial phenomena, they actually have differences in their brain. In some of the cases you've seen that might explain why they're seeing them,
Garry Nolan (00:41:06):
That they're basically smarter and they realize what's sitting in front of 'em, and they don't ignore it. I mean, that doesn't mean that they're magic. It just means that they see something for what it is. And so that does, I mean, people have asked me, well, is this area of the brain created by the interaction? No, because in some of the individuals, we actually were able to go back and look at their MRIs 10 years earlier and see that they still had it. They're born with it. And what's fascinating is it runs in families.
Ross Coulthart (00:41:36):
I was going to say, have you tested yourself?
Garry Nolan (00:41:38):
Yes. Yes. My family has it. We are way up on the scale. There's one physicist I know who's like twice as much as so as my mother, my brother, and my sister. We all
Ross Coulthart (00:41:49):
Have, I mean, since I did the documentary last year and wrote my book, I've been amazed by the number of people who've told me that the phenomenon of citing these objects and having these weird experiences that I suppose you could call them paranormal. It runs in the family. Mom had it, dad had it, granddad had it. It's quite common, isn't
Garry Nolan (00:42:09):
It? Yeah. So I wouldn't turn it into a movie script of some sort of magical ability. It's just, if it's a feature of intelligence, then no surprise that it gets passed down family to family. But what I find fascinating is its almost like it's is a dominant trait, because if it's a multigenic trait, multiple genes all coming together to enable a certain, what we would call phenotype, it would be much more disparate and less likely to be passed within immediate families. But the most interesting thing is this. It's found in about one in a hundred people on average to one in 200 people in a group of about, let's say 20 people, we found two husband wife pairs, both of whom had it. Okay, do the statistics, if it's one in a hundred, to basically find the other person in that one in a hundred randomly is a hundred squared a thousand, right?
(00:43:06):
Or 10,000, sorry. But to have two people find it in the same group is an even bigger statistical flaw or anomaly. So what does that mean? It means that these people are either in a limited breeding group, they all went to the same school, and they're smart, or they're somehow attracted to each other, that smart people are attracted to other smart people. So what does that do? From a really fascinating evolutionary point of view, this is what you would call the beginnings of speciation. So speciation is when you have a uniform breeding population, and let's say a mountain range over time comes between them, they now are separated no longer in breeding. They go in their own directions.
Ross Coulthart (00:43:51):
So people who are attracted to UFOs are attracted to each other
Garry Nolan (00:43:56):
In a way or capable of seeing, let's just say, capable of seeing. I wouldn't say that they're attracted to UFOs. I would say that there, I would just say in the simplest point of view, that this area of the brain, which has now been replicated in numbers of studies, the caudate especially and size and interactions is related to intuition and intelligence are smart. People are attracted to other smart people.
Ross Coulthart (00:44:21):
Gary, the one area that I've wrestled with as a journalist in this field is dealing with people who claim to have been abducted, people who claim experiences with humanoid entities. And my gut instinct is to immediately be dismissive, to say, it's rubbish. This can't possibly be true. How do we even begin to investigate claims like that?
Garry Nolan (00:44:54):
I struggle with it as well. I hear these stories. I know people who've made these claims. The problem is that there is no or rarely any residual evidence of the event. And others have said, well, why didn't they pick up a pen, an alien pen, and bring it back? I don't know. But you have a psychological trauma of some sort that's occurred. Again, people would call it maybe a screen memory for a traumatic event that was otherwise best earthly explained. I don't know what to do about it. I really don't. Except just to say that it's just more evidence on a pile that needs to be understood,
Ross Coulthart (00:45:38):
Which is why we were drawn to the story of Jim from Texas.
Garry Nolan (00:45:43):
Okay.
Ross Coulthart (00:45:44):
Jim's a guy who claims to have had abduction experiences ever since he was a little boy. He describes beings with big heads, gray aliens coming through the wall to take him away. Some of it sounds fantastical. And then all of a sudden he tells us he's got this sphere, this object that he was given by a friend, that the friend saw fall from a UFO, A craft of some kind. Now, we're not saying, let's be clear, we're not saying that Jim's got extraterrestrial technology or alien tech, but what can we do to objectively investigate that as a scientist yourself?
Garry Nolan (00:46:31):
Well, I have seen the videos that you've seen of this ball spontaneously rolling around the floor, and Jim has apparently had this for 40 years. And so why would it move? What kinds of propulsion inside might we use to conventionally explain it? Well, you can imagine some sort of movement winds up a spring. You put it on the ground, and that is why it moves around at some level. But why would anybody make something like that,
Ross Coulthart (00:47:05):
And why would anybody expose themselves to public ridicule by claiming that it's alien technology?
Garry Nolan (00:47:11):
Well, the most interesting thing about this story is, and that the metal sphere story came to my attention because of a gentleman in England had been noticing in a lot of the pictures of UFOs that they were often, you'd have the central object, and then there would be at least three or four of these metal spheres that would be surrounding it almost as if they were scouts or guards. And it's fascinating. He could go back 30, 40 years and find this exact same phenomenon. You would have the central UFO, and then you would have three or four spheres around it. So you could claim that any individual picture was a UFO. But this story of the spheres, these objects really didn't happen until recently. So how did a hoaxer multiple hoaxers know five decades ago to not only put a UFO in the picture to put four or five spheres? Because I have never heard this story before, and I've read a lot.
Ross Coulthart (00:48:21):
You've heard of the bits spheres.
Garry Nolan (00:48:23):
I've heard of them. I don't know as much about it as I need to.
Ross Coulthart (00:48:25):
There was a family in Florida in the mid 1970s who found in a forest, a metallic ball, slightly smaller than the one that we've seen, but nonetheless, a solid metallic sphere. It did the same sort of things that are being described by Jim. It moved around on its own accord in the house and became the subject of great hilarity and fascination by different media. And indeed, the US military got involved, and at one stage, they admitted that they couldn't explain it.
Garry Nolan (00:49:01):
I can't remember. Did they take it and
Ross Coulthart (00:49:03):
Return? They did. The US Navy took it for testing, and apparently when it came back, it didn't work.
Garry Nolan (00:49:08):
It didn't work anymore. They probably just substituted it for something else. Sure. So I mean, as you know, I'd love to get my hands on one of these things and investigate it.
Ross Coulthart (00:49:19):
Well, we've got samples that we'd like to give you in your lab. We took, as you suggested, some scrapings of the corrosion on the side of the sphere. What could you do with those?
Garry Nolan (00:49:29):
I mean, I would do the same kind of mass spectrometry experiments that I've done before. And then also there's a kind of non-destructive analysis you can do. It's called an electron back scatter approach to determine what some of the elements are. Any mass spectrometry approach is inherently partly destructive. So I would be using the least of the destructive approaches for this.
Ross Coulthart (00:49:59):
Now, one thing I hadn't thought about, we were obviously at one stage keen when we were in Texas to get this thing scanned in some way, but obviously if there is a remote possibility that this is some kind of technology, it's not just a steel ball. Nobody's going to put it into a scanner until they know what's inside it.
Garry Nolan (00:50:17):
Well, I wouldn't put it in a scanner unless that scanner was in the middle of a field surrounded by concrete, because I wouldn't want something bad to happen.
Ross Coulthart (00:50:25):
So it's a big issue. How on earth can we prove what Jim says about that object?
Garry Nolan (00:50:30):
So I think there are very simple mobile scanners that might cost a few thousand dollars that you wouldn't mind losing, first of all, to see if there's any kind of structure inside of the object. As you know, measured the weight. You measured the circumference, we could figure out what the density was.
Ross Coulthart (00:50:51):
Was the density significant to you?
Garry Nolan (00:50:53):
It wasn't pure iron, basically that the size of it, if it were iron or anything else, it wasn't pure iron,
Ross Coulthart (00:51:03):
Which means it's a manufactured alloy. Some,
Garry Nolan (00:51:04):
It's a manufactured alloy or it has steel on the outside and it has something else on the inside.
Ross Coulthart (00:51:10):
Now, one of the explanations that was given for the bits ball when it was discovered in the 1970s was that it was part of a ball valve that it was identical to or similar to a ball valve that's found inside some industrial technology. I guess that's possible with this one.
Garry Nolan (00:51:27):
It is always the story and then the provenance of the object. And how long do you trust the story, and is there any other anomalous behavior of the object? Well, it does move around, and so I kind of find that fascinating. It makes me wonder why, and we've talked about conventional ways it could still do something like that
Ross Coulthart (00:51:55):
Because possible, I mean, we all conceded when we saw it, it was moving around within a few minutes of when we'd put it on the ground, it appeared to be stopped. It appeared to be stable, but then somehow it started moving. So maybe it was movement from us walking across the floor or something like that, that made it move. We can't exclude that possibility. Is there a machine even assuming one can get access to be allowed to use the machine, but is there a machine that can look through dense steel? Oh, yes.
Garry Nolan (00:52:27):
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, that's a standard. I mean, whether anybody would let you do it is really the question, but I would say that there are people I know in the government that would have such instrumentation
Ross Coulthart (00:52:44):
That would be, I dunno if Jim would let the government have it to
Garry Nolan (00:52:46):
Be perfect. I know that's part of the problem. I'm not sure I would want to get it to them either, but we'll
Ross Coulthart (00:52:54):
See. When you say the government's been involved in a coverup, do you think they've been concealing?
Garry Nolan (00:52:58):
Oh, yes. It's an amazing allegation. I know it for a fact. I mean, I just know the difference.
Ross Coulthart (00:53:05):
Why do you know that? Because
Garry Nolan (00:53:06):
Spoken to the people who are about to come out and whistle blow on it.
Ross Coulthart (00:53:10):
Wow. So what's coming? Yeah, so there has been a coverup
Garry Nolan (00:53:16):
And there has been an active coverup. And what's nice, actually, frankly about the transparency is the machinations and maneuvering of the people who've been keeping things behind the scenes. The light has been shown on them. I mean, just look at what the Department of Defense announced last week. They announced an office to study the phenomenon, money put aside. They've said we're going to go back to 1947,
Ross Coulthart (00:53:49):
Which is incredible. That's the date of Roswell.
Garry Nolan (00:53:51):
Yeah, 1947. We want a list of every operation that you've done to inform and misinform. We want, and this is fascinating that they did this. We want a list of all of the NDAs, the non-disclosure agreements that have been instituted around these kinds of programs. Why is that interesting? It's not the NDAs themselves, it's the people who signed the NDAs because that then is the paper trail to the individuals and the programs in which that they're associated.
Ross Coulthart (00:54:25):
Are you aware of a document called the Admiral Wilson document?
Garry Nolan (00:54:28):
Yes.
Ross Coulthart (00:54:29):
Do you think it's genuine?
Garry Nolan (00:54:30):
Yes.
Ross Coulthart (00:54:31):
Wow.
Garry Nolan (00:54:33):
I mean, I know Eric Davis and Eric is of a kind of character that is just impossible for him to lie.
Ross Coulthart (00:54:43):
The significance of that document is that the former immediate director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, Admiral Thomas Wilson, allegedly had a conversation with Dr. Eric Davis, a renowned physicist, where he imparted his discovery that there was a secret UFO reverse engineering program going on inside the US government where they were hiding, recovered spacecraft, and it was being hidden in private aerospace. In a private aerospace corporation. The journalist in me, Gary, thinks Americans can't keep secrets. I mean everything leaks in this country.
Garry Nolan (00:55:24):
And this is an example of it.
Ross Coulthart (00:55:26):
Okay, so you take that point. Yeah. Ultimately it did leak.
Garry Nolan (00:55:29):
Ultimately it leaked. But was interesting was that how it was found? It was found in Edgar Mitchell's effects after he died. So it wasn't like anybody went out of their way to put it out there. And it had been,
Ross Coulthart (00:55:45):
And it's Apollo 14 astronaut, Edgar Mitchell
Garry Nolan (00:55:48):
Right. And Eric Davis had written it. And I don't know what the story was as to how Edgar, Dr. Mitchell got ahold of it, but nobody was looking to actively reveal this. It was the work of journalists who finally got ahold of Edgar's materials who decided to release it. So why would Eric Davis lie about writing something that he never intended to go public in the first place? He was just doing what an intelligence agent does on a regular basis, which is write reports of what it is that they've been doing.
Ross Coulthart (00:56:24):
And Eric, quite conspicuously has never made any comment one way or the other about the veracity of the document. Right.
Garry Nolan (00:56:30):
Well,
Ross Coulthart (00:56:32):
He can't. Can he?
Garry Nolan (00:56:34):
Can't. But, well before this came to light, I already knew of the document because Eric was part of a group that I was associated with around this.
Ross Coulthart (00:56:49):
The Implications of that are mind blowing, Garry, I mean this conversation, you've told me that you believe on evidence that there is a non-human intelligence of advanced technology on this planet,
Garry Nolan (00:57:03):
Right? Advanced capabilities. Now, I don't know whether it's a technology per se because I'm leaving open the idea that it's some form of consciousness that is non-material. And I know my say to my colleagues out there, I know this all sounds absolutely crazy, but if you've seen the things that I've seen, you would only be able to come to a similar conclusion. And I know, again, my reputation takes a hit. I'm sure that there are prizes and other things that I am never going to get because I'm talking about this. That's nowhere near as important as the subject matter to me.
Ross Coulthart (00:57:43):
The best science isn't It, is when you go against the grain.
Garry Nolan (00:57:46):
Yeah. Well, that's the Thomas Kuhn's book, the Structure of Scientific Revolutions. Eventually the anomalies and the things that don't fit the picture add up to the point where you can't ignore it anymore. And so that's what has just recently happened. We're watching a qian moment.
Ross Coulthart (00:58:07):
This is huge, isn't it? We're at a huge moment in human history right now.
Garry Nolan (00:58:11):
To me. I mean either it is a gigantic fou, right? It's a f bazillion people or it's real. And so on the off chance that it's real, I'm willing to spend any amount of time doing it. I mean, the Mega Millions Powerball is this weekend. Guess who went down and bought 20? Even though I know that there's one in 300 million chance that I'm going to get
Ross Coulthart (00:58:42):
It, and I bet you'd spend all the money on science, wouldn't you? I probably
Garry Nolan (00:58:45):
Would.
Ross Coulthart (00:58:47):
I wouldn't be doing my job, Gary, if I didn't come back to the fact that you've told me you've spoken to some of the whistleblowers. How hard has it been for them to come out of the black world and admit that they know about a government coverup?
Garry Nolan (00:59:02):
Well, I think it's been extremely difficult for them up until what Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon have accomplished, basically getting the US government to come out and create now an atmosphere of allowance to talk about it. I mean, it happened even two years ago with the Navy where they said, now we want you to tell us about these events that you're seeing. We want you to stop hiding it. Do
Ross Coulthart (00:59:33):
You believe that though? I mean, I'm sorry. I'm very cynical about the idea that elements of the US armed forces have suddenly undergone a religious conversion and decided that they want to be disclosure activists. I just don't buy it. I mean, I think the US Air Force in particular is trying to gag this whole story, isn't it?
Garry Nolan (00:59:50):
Yes. But I mean, you just use the word religious experience. I mean, I hate to say it. It's pretty well known that the people within the government who are the most anti letting of this information out are religious fundamentalists who believe that this is, I mean, talk about crazy. They're the ones who think it's the devil.
Ross Coulthart (01:00:14):
Yeah. So they're saying it's demonic. Demonic. I've actually had conversations with people in the US Air Force who've told me, this is demonic Ross. You shouldn't be looking at this. This is evil.
Garry Nolan (01:00:25):
And so how do you counter that kind of worldview? To me, even if it is demonic, I want to understand what they're doing and what their intent is.
Ross Coulthart (01:00:41):
Well, that was my next question. Do you think on the evidence it's well intentioned, whatever it is.
Garry Nolan (01:00:48):
I think it's neutral, to be
Ross Coulthart (01:00:50):
Honest. It's ambivalent about
Garry Nolan (01:00:51):
It's ambivalence, and if we kind of get in the way of whatever it is they're doing, you can get hurt.
Ross Coulthart (01:00:59):
Do you think the others, whatever they are these aliens that you believe are here, do you think they want to be known about?
Garry Nolan (01:01:09):
Well, they're obviously not doing much to hide themselves. I think they're showing us what they can do. They do show up. They're showing up around the nuclear sites. We all know this now.
Ross Coulthart (01:01:21):
We've seen them over bases in Australia,
Garry Nolan (01:01:23):
Right? We've seen them around the USS Nimitz, and it happens multiple times a week. I mean, even today, and I've been speaking with people about
Ross Coulthart (01:01:31):
That, by definition, that's a threat, isn't it? Yeah. It doesn't mean they're going to kill us, but it's by definition a threat because they're breaching the security of some of the most sensitive military installations on the planet.
Garry Nolan (01:01:44):
And I guess what they're saying is, well, who said this was your space? Anyway?
(01:01:51):
So why the interest in nuclear sites? I mean, I've said this before, that. So humanity I think is on the verge of leaving the planet as we know. And I think any intelligence that was looking at us from the outside that's been around as long as perhaps they have knows what the trajectory of humanity might be. And that would be to move out into the solar system and maybe eventually, even if it takes conventional means to accomplish it, move out into other stars. So here we are, a planet full of angry monkeys and we can't even take care of our own planet, and we are threatening to move out into the nearby galactic arm. Might take us a thousand, 10,000 years to do it. Maybe our neighbors want to know what it is that we're capable of doing.
Ross Coulthart (01:02:42):
There's a document I wrote about in my book called Slide nine, and Chris Mellon had accidentally left it on his website, and it was discovered by a very clever British researcher who was just going through and checking to see what Chris had on his website. It's a document that was prepared as a briefing document for the undersecretary of defense by members of the UFO task force. I think Lou Elon's team. The key thing about it is that it advises that whatever the phenomenon is, ears, it's capable of manipulating human perception, human consciousness, it can make us see things that aren't there. Do you think that's possibly what we are seeing in the sky, in the form
Garry Nolan (01:03:29):
Of ufo? Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of what makes it so difficult to reproduce is that different people see different things. I mean, the best example of this that I know is a story that Jacques Valle brought to me of a family in France driving down the highway. This was like in the last five to 10 years. And they had a glass topped car. And they look up and they see a UFO basically paralleling them down the highway. The mother looks around and sees that no other individuals nearby are freaking out about this thing above them. The children in the back take out their cell phones, take a picture of it, they get home and they look at the pictures on their camera and they don't see an object. They see a little star shaped thing about 30, so feet above it. And I have the picture that doesn't look anything like a drone. It's like, I think it has seven spokes and a central hole of some sort. So you're left with this. They saw a giant craft, but the picture shows that there was nothing else there. Nobody else could see it. So even if it was an object that was there, others weren't capable of seeing it. So it was manipulating vision. So yes, is the short answer.
Ross Coulthart (01:04:49):
There's a possibility, Gary, that you are one of the few scientists in the world who are investigating what is potentially the biggest scientific discovery of all time, isn't there?
Garry Nolan (01:05:00):
Yes. And what I actually hope to find, let's say, is that on the inside there are other scientists who've been working on this problem for many more years than I've even been interested in. And they can basically, I'd be perfectly happy with them stepping forward and taking the limelight because it's not about what I want to find. It's about what is. And if others are there, which already know it, let's catch everybody else up.
Ross Coulthart (01:05:29):
So Jim, let's talk about Jim for Texas,
Garry Nolan (01:05:31):
Right?
Ross Coulthart (01:05:33):
Jim's happy to be interrogated. He wants to be challenged. He's so thrilled that there might be any kind of scientific investigation into what he says. Is there interest in having a look at what he's got?
Garry Nolan (01:05:48):
Oh, absolutely, I would. But again, it's the resources and capability have to be there. I'm not going to go down there and ask him to give me the thing, and then I just take it home and wait to set up the kinds of analysis that need to be
Ross Coulthart (01:06:01):
Done. If and when you've got a laboratory that will accept this technology and be able to scan it properly, you'll do it.
Garry Nolan (01:06:08):
Oh, absolutely. Why not? I mean, I have looked at many things over the years. You probably, some of your listeners might know the T comma mummy example. Somebody wanted it to be an alien. I said, Hmm, let's use science to study it. No, it turns out to be unfortunately probably a stillbirth of
Ross Coulthart (01:06:31):
Some kind. And I know Dr. Greer has maintained that you were obviously got at by the intelligence agencies to stop you from revealing the fact that it was alien.
Garry Nolan (01:06:38):
Well, he knows where the sample is. And the good thing about science is he could go back and test it
Ross Coulthart (01:06:44):
Again. So the point that you are making is that you are prepared to be rigorous and challenge the believers when you can prove it.
Garry Nolan (01:06:53):
There's actually another, there's, they called it the star child skull that I basically got my hands on to look at. It also is just human. I mean, it's not about the most spectacular cases. And this is the same thing in science. The best science is always noticing the points that are off the curve that are the unexpected. Because first of all, you have to explain why that point is off the curve, because there might be something wrong with your experiment. But if it is off the curve and it's absolutely reproducible, then you've discovered something novel. This is what we're looking at right now. It's off the curve. If it is real, it is, as you say, the biggest discovery in human history. But if it is real, it's already been discovered by the governments. So let's just get it over with and get the information out and start bringing the collective intelligence of the planet to study it.
Ross Coulthart (01:07:55):
Final question, from what you know of these whistleblowers and the determination of the people in the Congress and people like Louis Elizondo and Chris Mellon, do you think we're going to get answers soon? Yes. How soon?
Garry Nolan (01:08:11):
I think in the next two years.
Ross Coulthart (01:08:15):
And do you think there will be public hearings where people reveal into the Congress what they know,
Garry Nolan (01:08:21):
Whether they're public hearings at the beginning? No, I don't think, but I think there is. We are getting ready for a public announcement.
Ross Coulthart (01:08:30):
Wow. I think. And do you think that public announcement might be there is another life form of intelligence on this planet?
Garry Nolan (01:08:39):
Yes. I mean, that's the only trajectory we've got. I mean, I've always said that I've only ever been interested in studying the inevitable or working on the inevitable in my science. So I think it's inevitable.
Ross Coulthart (01:08:53):
Professor Gary Nolan, thank you very much.
Garry Nolan (01:08:56):
Thank you.
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