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2023-11-16 - Tucker Carlson / David Grusch

Disclaimer: This is a machine generated transcript and does include errors. Please check the original if necessary. 

Transcript:

Tucker Carlson (00:00:00):

Human beings have recorded seeing strange moving lights in the sky since, well, the beginning of known history. The record goes back thousands of years. What is that? We don't know. In the United States, people have been talking a lot about these strange lights, UFOs, since the second World War, when military pilots recorded seeing things they called foo fighters out there cockpit windows, they had no idea what they were. For the last 80 years, it seems like there has been a continuous increase in the settings of these things, these UFOs or UAPs, and there's a whole industry that has grown up around describing what they are may be, but it wasn't until very recently, within the last 18 months that former government officials began stepping forward in public to say what they believe they are. People with direct firsthand knowledge of the government's interactions with these objects or vehicles or people or whatever they are. One such person who has come forward recently is a longtime military intelligence officer, an Air Force major called Dave Grush. He's made a number of very interesting claims in public, including in congressional hearings for example. Here he is telling the Congress that in fact the US government has retrieved bodies, or as he puts it, biologics from crashed UAPs. Watch.

Speaker 3 (00:01:19):

Do you believe that officials at the highest levels of our national security apparatus have unlawfully withheld information from Congress and subverted our oversight authority?

David Grusch (00:01:30):

There are certain elected leaders that had more information that I'm not sure what they've shared with certain gang of eight members or et cetera, but certainly I would not be surprised.

Speaker 3 (00:01:42):

Okay. You've stated that the government is in possession of potentially non-human spacecraft. Based on your experience and extensive conversations with experts, do you believe our government has made contact with intelligent extraterrestrials?

David Grusch (00:01:58):

Something I can't discuss in public setting.

Speaker 3 (00:02:03):

Okay. I can't ask when you think this occurred, if you believe we have crashed craft stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?

David Grusch (00:02:14):

As I've stated publicly already in my News Nation interview biologics came with some of these recoveries. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:02:22):

Were they I guess human or non-human biologics

David Grusch (00:02:27):

And that was the assessment of people. What's direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still on the program?

Speaker 3 (00:02:32):

And was this documentary evidence? Is video photos eyewitness? How would that be determined?

David Grusch (00:02:39):

The specific documentation? I would have to talk to you in a skiff about

Tucker Carlson (00:02:44):

Skiff being a secure location where the highest classified intelligence can be discussed among people who have permission to hear it. Dave Grs is the man you just saw in that video. He joins us now. Thanks so much. Thanks Tucker. Coming on. So before you get into fleshing out some of what you told Nancy Mason, that clip, could you tell us about your background? Who are you, where are you from? What have you spent your life doing?

David Grusch (00:03:05):

Yeah, I spent my entire life growing up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Son of very normal income, typical family. Spent most of my youth playing basketball and tennis. And I ended up going to the University of Pittsburgh where I went into Air Force, ROTC. I had a full scholarship in physics at the time and born and bred in Pittsburgh. And then once I graduated, Pitts ended up commissioning in the Air Force as a second lieutenant and went on active duty. And I ended up spending 14 years in the Air Force, both active duty and reserve. And also I became a government civilian at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. And I was lucky enough to be brought in at the GS 15 level, which is equivalent to a full bird colonel civilian

Tucker Carlson (00:03:55):

National Geospatial on MacArthur Boulevard in DC

David Grusch (00:03:58):

It's in Springfield, Virginia. Oh it is.

Tucker Carlson (00:04:00):

Okay.

David Grusch (00:04:00):

They moved for beir,

Tucker Carlson (00:04:02):

Right? What is that, by the way?

David Grusch (00:04:04):

So that agency collects all imagery, other types of visual intelligence to make FUSE products called geospatial intelligence products. So think about the National Reconnaissance Office flies the bus, so to speak. They fly the satellites, the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency processes that intelligence

Tucker Carlson (00:04:25):

Survive. Okay. If there's stuff floating above the earth, it's their job to know about it, I assume

David Grusch (00:04:30):

Process the intelligence coming off satellites flying around the earth. Yes.

Tucker Carlson (00:04:36):

So you spent over 14 years in this world.

David Grusch (00:04:39):

Yes.

Tucker Carlson (00:04:40):

And then suddenly the rest of us encounter you in public saying that the US government has very detailed knowledge of what these things are and has for a long time.

David Grusch (00:04:50):

Yeah. I had no personal interest in the UFO subject really. Certainly I grew up and I saw stuff in the History channel, that kind of thing. But having studied physics became an intel officer, I was very agnostic about the subject and I was in a position of extreme trust. I handled the Presidential Daily Brief for my agency's director at the Nashville Conscience Office when I was an Air Force Reserve officer, was widely cleared to most black programs in the Department of Defense. What's

Tucker Carlson (00:05:16):

A black

David Grusch (00:05:17):

Program? Special access program? A sap. Right. And I figured that I would know if that kind of program exists. It was kind of a joke between myself and other colleagues over the years. Like, haha, when are we going to get read into the UFO stuff? And we thought that it was a total joke, but it wasn't until I saw the New York Times article in 2017. And

Tucker Carlson (00:05:43):

What was that article?

David Grusch (00:05:45):

So that was a story about Lou Elizondo and other individuals that ran the AIP program and the offset program. So fancy aerospace, weapons systems applications.

Tucker Carlson (00:05:55):

To be clear, I think the government has never admitted that was or denied in fact that Elizondo was involved

David Grusch (00:05:59):

In that stuff. No, he certainly was. I remember in a very senior official's office in McLean briefing that senior official into about a couple hundred special access programs. At the time, I was a trusted individual advising the joint chiefs on certain black programs. And I remember that individual who was a coworker of Lou Elizondo mentioned, oh, there's this guy named Lou Elizondo over at the Pentagon. He's running some UFO program. We think he lost his mind. He's giving the under Secretary of Defense for intelligence a hard time. roo So I went

Tucker Carlson (00:07:50):

In all fair guesses.

David Grusch (00:07:51):

Yeah, I went improving a negative. I mean, I was open to the idea of non-human intelligence because as a guy got his bachelor's in physics, there's something called the Drake equation calculates the number of potential civilizations in the Milky Way based on certain factors. And people can Google that and play around with it. So I was open to it, but I didn't think that was going to be the answer.

Tucker Carlson (00:08:15):

So you were detailed to this.

David Grusch (00:08:17):

It was my official duty as an Air Force officer. And then eventually when NGA hired me as a government civilian, the UAP portfolio came to myself and a few other individuals within our agency to support the UAP task force initially. But of course, that office transitioned to the aero office, the all domain anomaly resolution office.

Tucker Carlson (00:08:38):

So by this point, worked in the government for a long time.

David Grusch (00:08:41):

Yeah, I did. Yeah. I mean, you count my cadet time and uniform. I've been in uniform 18 years.

Tucker Carlson (00:08:47):

How was this different?

David Grusch (00:08:49):

This was different because I started to uncover some very disturbing facts. I had people come to me, I had access to the classified archives from those previous UFO programs that Lue Elizondo and others ran years prior. And I read some extremely interesting foreign intelligence that was derived by clandestine human sources overseas espousing. And this is something they're noting about the us. They're like, yeah, the US has a retrieval program, reverse engineering program. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

Tucker Carlson (00:09:27):

Whoa. This was the assessment of other

David Grusch (00:09:28):

Countries, other countries. And by the way, I ran all this through DOD security and pre-publication review. Mind you. So anything I say in detail, I'm a steward of security. I care about national security and I would never want to say something publicly that would hamper national security just to put that out there.

Tucker Carlson (00:09:46):

But what an interesting way to find out. You're reading the assessment of countries that are spying on us and we've spied on their assessments of us.

David Grusch (00:09:55):

Yes. And I had a chain of custody on how we got that information and I thought maybe, oh, this is passage material. We got to be very careful which passage material would be like a form of disinformation to try to trick a case officer to develop a relationship with asset assets. So I was like, well, wait a minute, is this true? A certain adversary in ours thinks apparently this is true. And one thing led to another, and I did talk to extremely, extremely senior officials, both former directors of certain agencies. I had the privilege of having a relationship with them. And I talked to 'em about this issue and they confirmed those details. And what was really interesting in the previous UFO programs records, so the OSAP program, which ran roughly 2008 to 2010 or so, and that was in the Defense Intelligence Agency, and this has been released by foia.

(00:10:55):

You can actually go to DIA's website and read this. But the paperwork included this very odd request from Senator Harry Reed. He sent a letter to the Deputy Secretary of Defense asking for something called a provisional special access program or psap. I've never seen in my career a member of Congress ask the Department of Defense to develop a very classified program. And usually it's the reverse, right? Congress wants more transparency and declassification. I'm like, this is very odd. I don't know what's going on here. Why is Harry Reed saying that the OSAP program found something they needed to develop this provisional special access program that is waived and bigoted, which is the most serious of SAPs waived means it's limited. Congressionally reported it's a 10 US code, section one 19 and bigoted meaning it's like by name. And there was a list of individuals that needed to be briefed.

(00:11:55):

Of course, Senator Reed iue and a couple members of Gang of Eight wanted to be on it. And so I asked people that both worked on that program, but also people that were tangential to it that worked in certain intelligence agencies. So what was this about? Well, a certain clear defense contractor wanted to transfer some of their material holdings to DIA for our program. It was all crash retrieval material. And this was a way to horizontally protect, as we call it that information and that physical material from a certain other government program and custodian that lent that contractor material in the past. And I was like, wait, are you saying we have UFO material? That's crazy. Are you sure it's UFO material? This isn't like we went and got a wreckage of a Russian bomber and it just happened to be weird or something like that. And no, they were dead serious.

Tucker Carlson (00:12:55):

And what was their sort of tone or affect when they said, of course, or?

David Grusch (00:13:00):

Well, they certainly, I guess they're a little bit jaded and the reality to them is not shocking. But I was so intrigued by this. Not only did I interview 10 people that were in the meetings that talked to the clear defense contractor, were involved in trying to persuade the government customer to release custodianship to give it ultimately to DIA in Bigelow Aerospace. I actually flew to Las Vegas and I actually met with Senator Harry Reed himself after he retired, of course, the former majority leader. And I wanted to hear it right from his mouth who

Tucker Carlson (00:13:36):

Had a long time interest in this topic.

David Grusch (00:13:39):

And he confirmed that to me. He's like, yes, I was told this clear defense contractor had material, this was the way to get it. And he told me that he knew that contractor had material for decades. However, the Pentagon has always denied him access to actually go see that. And he literally told me that in his living room to my face. And he ultimately made that disclosure to me how York,

Tucker Carlson (00:14:07):

If I could just ask you to pause, how could the Pentagon, which has no authority of any kind, except to the extent it serves elected officials, it's not its own country. They're just employees like your housekeeper. They work for politicians who are elected by other people. How can they deny an elected official access to something?

David Grusch (00:14:26):

And that's part of why I whistle blowed, right? This constitutional branch of government oversight

Tucker Carlson (00:14:31):

Issue. Thank you. Exactly.

David Grusch (00:14:33):

And elected leaders, even in the normal black SAP community, they're treated as second class citizens. Oh, we're going to waive reporting. I'm Deb SecDef. I can sign an order saying we're not going to fully brief certain committees on. So you've seen that on programs that is in public law tenuous code section one 19, and that is Congressional oversight of SAPs is the title of that part of public law. But the department, which I find in retrospect very weird, where the legislators authorize and appropriate for these programs, but they're not afforded full access. And occasionally Gang of eight will get those kind of briefings. But literally they could withhold, besides notifying a program that stood up the entire Congress that we're doing some kind of clandestine activity,

Tucker Carlson (00:15:23):

It's almost unbelievable. I mean, they have no moral authority to do that, of course, under our constitution.

David Grusch (00:15:29):

And

Tucker Carlson (00:15:31):

Can I just ask, and I don't want to caught up on this, the least interesting part, but it is, I think significant. What about the executive? Do you believe they withheld information from sitting presidents?

David Grusch (00:15:41):

Yeah. It's funny you asked that. So the executive was initially involved in the secrecy on the UAP topic. They transposed the Manhattan Project Secrecy construct onto this eventually. And then they formed the Atomic Energy Act. Well, it was McMahon Act of 46, the Atomic Energy Act of 54, and they purposely diluted the definition of special nuclear material. If you actually read section 51 of the Atomic Energy Act in 1954, it says, besides normal nuclear material, we can also protect stuff that is similar. And it's a very broad definition. And that's basically the justification of the secrecy on this topic is the material that we recover sometimes does have radioactive properties. And so they legally and gymnast twisted the public law to justify the secrecy.

Tucker Carlson (00:16:39):

I have so many questions for you, and I'm getting in the way of your narrative, which is terrific. Thank you. So before I interrupted you, you were saying, so you all of a sudden realized this is real. And then it sounds like you said you interviewed 10 people. It sounds like you decided to find out as much as you could.

David Grusch (00:16:56):

Yeah, we interviewed roughly 40 people, many of which had firsthand knowledge. Like I said, we were privileged to interview people at the same kind of level as Harry Reed, for example. And Harry was just so concerned about this topic. When I left the meeting with him, he said he was going to go talk to President Biden. Him and President Biden had a weekly call, and this is about nine months before his death. Certainly his mind was sharp, but he was struggling with his health issues for sure. But he was so concerned about our conversation, which was unclassified. I was in his living room, but he was going to go talk to the president because he understood that even himself as a gang of eight member and the majority leader, for goodness sakes, was denied access. And going back to your earlier question about presidents, many administrations, a lot of the presidents were in the know right. However, it's vacillated over the years where certain chief executives aren't necessarily briefed all aspects of the program. So you have commander in chief is also our chief diplomats, and they do need to know if there is a foreign entity, adversary, friend, whatever out there so they can form foreign policy for the country. But when you are not telling, it's like classifying the existence of Russia,

Tucker Carlson (00:18:19):

But it's also they have no moral authority to do it. They have no authority to even have their jobs without the authority that comes from the votes of the population through the elected officials. So

David Grusch (00:18:31):

Well, that's the issue. It's a symptom of the over classification of this whole secret national security state that was formed in 1947. And they're basically classifying basic physics, basic astrobiology, that kind of stuff. And that's, do we classify nuclear physics? No, you can study in a university.

Tucker Carlson (00:18:54):

Since I keep interrupting, let's just go to the beginning. Tell us what you know about the genesis of this. I'll start with the most obvious question, which is you said the secrecy surrounding these programs derived from the secrecy surrounding the Manhattan Project. Is there any connection between the two?

David Grusch (00:19:10):

Not overtly, but certainly during the Manhattan Project? Well,

Tucker Carlson (00:19:14):

No, lemme be more specific. Do you think that the development of nuclear weapons was derived anywhere from technology from these

David Grusch (00:19:21):

No, no, no, no. But I think

Tucker Carlson (00:19:23):

That was totally independent,

David Grusch (00:19:24):

But I think it might've precipitated interest from these

Tucker Carlson (00:19:30):

Objects, from

David Grusch (00:19:30):

These objects, yes. Okay.

Tucker Carlson (00:19:32):

So the most famous, obviously, Roswell 1947.

David Grusch (00:19:38):

Yeah, I can't talk about many retrievals. The only one I've stated publicly is the 1933 Italian event.

Tucker Carlson (00:19:45):

So tell us what that is.

David Grusch (00:19:46):

So I picked that event specifically because it was not US-centric, and I wanted to espouse this as a worldwide problem, not just a US-centric problem. So that was a recovery of an artifact by the axis powers Italy and Germany and magenta, Italy in 1933. Much of that information, ironically, was in the public vernacular starting in the early two thousands. There were certain researchers in Italy that uncovered these documents that Mussolini sent to the Gestapo or the Italian equivalent of the Gestapo and otherwise, however, that was one specific recovery that was briefed to me by a senior intelligence officer.

Tucker Carlson (00:20:29):

Well, I mean since it was 90 years ago in fascist Italy, I think we can We're safe in telling what we know, correct? Yeah. So what happened?

David Grusch (00:20:41):

So they recovered this object, it looked like an acorn. And the officer that briefed me, and we'll just say senior officials on Capitol Hill during a certain private session, described how the edges of this, it was like a lenticular disc looking thing, but the edges broke off when it hit the earth. So it looked like an acorn or like a bell shape when they recovered it. It was just an artifact. They didn't find anything with it. And the Italians kept custody of that towards the end of the war. And then the Americans came in and recovered it, and we knew about it because it turns out the Vatican through Pope the 12th and the OSS, they sent a communicate back to FDR saying, Hey, we got something kind of weird that crashed in Italy. So this history is longer than most people think. It is not those seminal events that you may have mentioned to me, but it actually goes back much farther. And I wanted to use 1933 as an example, not only to garner international interest, but to explain it. This is a longer activity than most people think.

Tucker Carlson (00:21:54):

But what you're saying is even Italy falls in 1945, the Mussolini government and the US Army military swoops in and takes this, and then it disappears behind the veil of secrecy. Why? So they were secretive about it even then. How come?

David Grusch (00:22:10):

Well, it was one of those things, it's like a Pandora's box. If you could analyze it and garner some kind of information from it from a reverse engineering perspective, it may give you an ASCE in a hole asymmetric advantage over your adversary. Correct. And well, we want to figure this out. We don't know if Russia has ever found any of this stuff at the time. And of course, they didn't know the origin of it. They just wanted to make sure it wasn't one of our adversaries. So they spent years looking at it and developing an intelligence infrastructure to figure out what was going on.

Tucker Carlson (00:22:46):

Is that the first that you know of?

David Grusch (00:22:48):

No, but that was one of the ones I ran through DOD security. And so you

Tucker Carlson (00:22:52):

Believe there're earlier incidents?

David Grusch (00:22:55):

I don't want to comment either way. Yeah, I know about many other events, but however, that's the only one that I've cleared through security.

Tucker Carlson (00:23:03):

Okay. But you can say for at least this 80 years the US government has,

David Grusch (00:23:09):

Yeah, at least from 1933 was at about 90 or so, if I do in the math, right?

Tucker Carlson (00:23:13):

Well, you said that US government didn't take custody until the end of the war.

David Grusch (00:23:16):

That particular one? Yes.

Tucker Carlson (00:23:18):

Okay. But you are saying the US government had knowledge in the thirties.

David Grusch (00:23:22):

They were aware of the issue back then. Yeah.

Tucker Carlson (00:23:25):

Wow. Huh. Stupid question, but one that keeps occurring to me. Why would advanced technology like this crash so often?

David Grusch (00:23:35):

Yeah, people ask that. I think one of the tropes that a lot of skeptics put out like, oh, well it traveled so far. Why did it crash? Did it crash by accident or on, and there's something called the concept of Von Neumann replicating probes, which you can Google that a physicist postulated that if you're advanced, you might have throwaway probes. I mean, think of the Voyager spacecraft, for example, right? Well, we don't care what the disposition is at the end. We just wanted to go as far as possible. So the crashes aren't necessarily on purpose. And I'm not just saying that as my own personal theory. I talked to scientists that were on this program and this was one of their legitimate theories that is a possible. But you

Tucker Carlson (00:24:21):

Say these objects came from so far, do we know that?

David Grusch (00:24:24):

Well, that's the thing is you don't really know the origin. Even certain directors of government agencies we talked to about this issue, and they were well aware of this program, they like to use the term extraterrestrial, but I'm a little skeptical about that. That's why I like to use the term NHI. And that also is non-human intelligence. And that is also a term that Chuck Schumer in the Schumer Amendment. So Chuck Schumer, Senator Gillibrand, Rubio Rounds and Young proposed an act called the UAP Disclosure Act of 2023. It's an amendment within the fiscal year 24 National Defense Authorization Act, 67 pages publicly available. It is currently in conference right now, and they use the term non-human intelligence biologics. So I'm not the only one using those terms. That is the majority leader. Chuck Schumer, who by the way, was friends with Harry Reed and other notable senators are also pushing for transparency in this matter.

Tucker Carlson (00:25:29):

Is there any evidence that these objects are coming from far away through space into our atmosphere

David Grusch (00:25:35):

That touches some sensitive national technical capabilities? I can't cross, but

Tucker Carlson (00:25:41):

It sounds like there's some suggestion they're coming from under the ocean.

David Grusch (00:25:44):

I think it's a multi-domain issue, and there are a bunch of potential origins that are based either in physics theory or biological theory, and I'm open to all possibilities. Is

Tucker Carlson (00:25:58):

It known so far as you know where they come from?

David Grusch (00:26:02):

There are reasonably confident theories. However, I have not seen all the data and I don't always trust everything. Certain interview subjects espouse. I might have an intellectual or data analytical kind of difference in an opinion, but I do encourage the president and through this act, make all data as it relates to origin transparent to the American people.

Tucker Carlson (00:26:28):

Well, I mean if you can't even say it now, and I want to get into that why the secrecy actually.

David Grusch (00:26:35):

Well, that's the problem is it's actually hindering national security by keeping it so tight because you don't have broad industrial base and academic study. So just like nuclear physics, you can go and get a PhD in it. You can read about it, you can study it how you build nuclear weapons, that's classified and that's fine. I just want this subject to basically be horizontally protected, like nuclear secrets, like true nuclear secrets, where the broad study of which should be open to the public and anything that is really dangerous to release because of weaponization or something, keep that classified. But 95% should be open to study throughout the world. Well,

Tucker Carlson (00:27:17):

Especially since it sounds pretty clear that the US government's been in contact with whatever these are, you wouldn't confirm or deny that in your congressional testimony. It seems very clear to me, and I won't ask you. You already have an answer, but that's being done in the name of the US taxpayer of citizens of voters. And at some point they have a right to know that. I can't imagine what the justification for keeping that from the public who you work for. What could that be?

David Grusch (00:27:45):

Yeah, I think is it abuse? So executive order 13 5 26, if you read that, delineates the eight reasons you classify information. And the only thing that this falls under is scientific and technical information that has national security implications. It's this boilerplate and it's really just an abuse at this point. And we're over classifying things out of fear of the socioeconomic, theological and counterintelligence implications. Because I remember talking to a former director of a three letter agency that we happen to know personally and we met with, and that former director's biggest issue was the counterintelligence implications. We can't let Russia and China figure this. Okay, I get that. I used to work counterintelligence to protect US programs in a previous job when I was a young Air Force officer, but there's got to be a middle grounds and not, oh, well, we don't know what to do, so we're just going to keep everything unacknowledged. It's ridiculous.

Tucker Carlson (00:28:47):

But it also suggests that there's more going on here. I mean, in your own life or my life, any person, the things that you hide, the things you try to keep secret the most assiduously are the things you're most embarrassed about.

David Grusch (00:28:59):

That is true. So there was a recent administration that had an informal offsite meeting, and I talked to multiple individuals that were in this in-person meeting with, I'll just say National Security Council staff of this former administration. And one of the biggest issues that they raised was white collar crime, illegal contracting. So there's something called the federal acquisition Regulation, the FAR, and if you only give a couple contractors full access for decades of this stuff, and you don't let other contractors compete for work for money, you're giving certain companies an unfair competitive advantage that violates literal US law. So we're not going to release anything because then we have to deal. And I remember these individuals telling me they were worried that contractors would sue the US government and it'd be litigated to the Supreme Court. Well, we're out of billions of dollars because you sole sourced it to these couple companies.

Tucker Carlson (00:30:00):

Of course. And there are darker explanations

David Grusch (00:30:02):

And there's darker things, I'm sure. But some of the most obvious ones that they told me were very rudimentary. And it's like, well, yeah, well, I'm sorry you guys did that. And let's be clear, I'm not here to admonish the entire US government. I mean, I know a lot of good people. I would have to think I was a good person, a good intelligence officer.

Tucker Carlson (00:30:21):

Well, I'm the son of a federal employee. You don't need to convince me. I know.

David Grusch (00:30:24):

So I'm Not here to overly admonish everybody. I think there needs to be a, call it a truth and reconciliation process. We're not here to shackle people. We're not here to get people necessarily in trouble unless they did something grossly illegal and moral and unethical. And I suspect based on people I talked to, there is going to be limited situations where people are going to be found culpable in that. But I'm here, it's time to reconcile this. We need to heal from this. We need to disclose the basics, the fact that we're not alone. We've recovered material and we've recovered the occupants. And beyond that, the president can decide what should be disclosed. It's above my pay grade. But the basics should be acknowledged. And I think it's a more ontologically, shocking, but also uniting thing in an era of divisiveness. I think we need This.

Tucker Carlson (00:31:22):

I agree with that.

David Grusch (00:31:23):

I mean, what else is going to unite the left, the right, and potentially our adversaries? I mean, you saw the hearing that you played the clip. I had a OC and Matt Gaetz agreeing on something in the same room and not arguing. It was crazy. So this topic, I think is maybe we're at a point in our society, especially the decay we've seen over the last 30 years, and the divisiveness, whether you're on the left or on the right, this is the one topic that I think can basically be a reset button.

Tucker Carlson (00:31:54):

So can you just give us a sense of the scale of these recoveries? It's like three or is it?

David Grusch (00:32:01):

It is double digit. And I've mentioned that publicly. I am familiar with the exact numbers. We had multiple intel officers brief us on all the numbers. And, when where and how.

Tucker Carlson (00:32:11):

Is all this stuff kept, I mean, I assume it.

David Grusch (00:32:14):

I do know of some specific Locations,

Tucker Carlson (00:32:15):

some Boeing, Raytheon warehouse.

David Grusch (00:32:17):

Yeah, I mean, Harry Reid knew about one specific location, and that was the material that he was denied access to.

Tucker Carlson (00:32:24):

Why didn't he show up with armed guards in demand to see it? I don't understand. Everyone's so passive.

David Grusch (00:32:28):

Yeah,

Tucker Carlson (00:32:28):

you're the Senate majority leader. Show it to me now.

David Grusch (00:32:30):

Yeah, you would think that there's some kind of enforcement tactic he could have used. He didn't espouse anything else besides he trying to get access administratively by sponsoring that special access

Tucker Carlson (00:32:42):

Program. So that kind of raises an interesting, having spent my life in Washington, you hear this stuff. You don't really know if it's true about unauthorized and dark things going on in the United States to people who tell its secrets. But it does raise the question why you, it's been going on for, well, you said I guess 90 years at least. You're suggesting longer actually, but certainly most of the century and no one's really come forward. Why is that? Yeah, I

David Grusch (00:33:11):

Mean, there have been other people that have come forward. Certainly it was more stigmatized in the past. Why me? I was just a guy in the right place in the right time. I happened to be ultra cleared in the DOD and IC at the time, and I generally knew who to talk to, where the skeletons were for other US activities. But what's your

Tucker Carlson (00:33:31):

Motive?

David Grusch (00:33:32):

My motive really is just Air Force core values service before self integrity first. And I just did not want to look back 30 years from now and be like, I should have done something when this topic was acceptable in Congress. We had all this momentum. I just did not want to live out my life keeping this secret like these other gentlemen and ladies that came to me and my group on the UAP task force, they wanted a change. Some of them were in tears. They were threatened over the years and threatened by whom? Both the program. Because you can imagine, Hey, we're going to read you in. This is treason. You will go to the Leavenworth and you'll be executed if you ever divulge these secrets. Right? So they were intimidated.

Tucker Carlson (00:34:18):

Have fun at trial.

David Grusch (00:34:20):

Yeah. Well, the judicial process doesn't work quite the same on that program, but that's sensitive.

Tucker Carlson (00:34:26):

Oh they don't have the constitution in place?

David Grusch (00:34:28):

I don't want to get into it.

Tucker Carlson (00:34:28):

why doesn't someone just tear down the US government? This is so rotten that it's hard to believe it's actually in existence.

David Grusch (00:34:34):

I lost a lot of sleep on this, but when I started getting attacked on the inside and the reprisal started happening for three years, I knew I was over the target, so to speak. You take fire when you're over the target, as we say in the Air Force, and it just got so crazy. I had three agencies investigate me at the same time somehow,

Tucker Carlson (00:34:56):

Which ones

David Grusch (00:34:57):

Don't want to say, because there's an ongoing reprisal investigation on my behalf by the Inspector General to look in into all this that's going on. So I don't want to compromise that investigation by saying too many details. But I was investigated by three agencies at once. They tried to dig up anything they could find on me. They tried to use mental health issues. I reported in my past, I've been in Afghanistan, I got PTSD, I have a VA disability rating because of that. I had a friend that blew up. I had a friend that had killed himself and that impacted me when I was a younger guy in my twenties. But I got help, no problem. I maintained my clearance. But they dug up stuff from almost a decade ago saying, oh, he has ongoing issues, that kind of thing. And certainly was not the case.

(00:35:44):

I was taking care of myself. I have high functioning autism and I had to learn how to manage my emotions and got help maintain my clearance. So when that didn't work, they just made up stuff. And it turns out I found out after the fact I was under criminal investigation for four months. I was never interviewed. I didn't even know what it was about. But then I found out afterwards when they tried to use that to revoke my clearance. Now mind you, I have a good attorney, the former inspector general, and we litigated that, we rebutted that and everything was, I was cleared of any wrongdoing. I maintained my clearance. I resigned from NGA with my clearance eligibility intact. But I even foy that agency who put me under criminal investigation, and I got a denial of my whole file citing something called a B seven Alpha FOIA exemption, which means we could compromise a law enforcement investigation, but they wouldn't even give me anything.

(00:36:48):

Not even redacted papers. They just gave me a denial letter. And I'm like, okay, so you said I did something bad, which wasn't even true. You never interviewed me and you were trying to use that information to fire me. That's crazy. And luckily, there is an open investigation to look at this kind of wrongdoing. And that's one of the reasons I went public. I'm a patriot. I shouldn't be treated like this. Of course not. If there was a sensitive program I uncovered, come to the table with me, tell me, knock it off, Dave, sign this piece of paper. But where's

Tucker Carlson (00:37:20):

Everybody else? And where's everyone else been for the last 90 years? I know this is so outrageous that it suggests to me that the threats, the ones you alluded to, are real. People are afraid of being hurt.

David Grusch (00:37:30):

Hurt. And luckily people are coming out. So remember the DIA asset program I mentioned earlier. So a man named Dr. James Latsky ran it. He's a PhD level, former DIA officer, now retired. So he wrote two books. One is called Skin Walkers at the Pentagon, and on page 1 52 to 1 53, if anybody's watching and happens to have the book, you'll note that they talked about a sequestered technology and they were trying to get access to it. Well, that's what I just told you earlier in this interview is Harry Reed was literally trying to get them access to that technology. And people are like, oh, well, Harry was funding some paranormal program. They were looking at Skin Walker Ranch. It was some woowoo thing. And I'm like, well, the real story is the 21 or 22 million appropriated was meant to set up material analysis equipments at a Biglow aerospace facility to look at the material that a clear defense contractor was supposed to transfer to them.

(00:38:30):

But when that ended, they ended up doing other stuff with that money. Well, they wanted to study this phenomenon in some way, shape, or form. So they looked at some of the more paranormal aspects, if you will. I've never been to Skywalker Ranch in Utah, but allegedly things are going on out there. And then they wrote these documents called defense intelligence reference documents in lieu of what the core reason for that money. So a lot of naysayers in social media are like, oh, Harry Reed, he was just into the paranormal and he wanted to study skin walker ranch ghosts. That's not entirely accurate. There was a real reason for it.

Tucker Carlson (00:39:13):

No, but I'm just saying what they're doing is what it sounds like they did to you, which is try to discredit you by calling you a nut. Yeah.

David Grusch (00:39:19):

And one week after the congressional hearing, there was a hit piece on the intercept. Somebody verbally tipped off that reporter and he admitted it on Interview on the Hill. And he Foy had for some records that pointed towards some struggles I had several years ago where I checked myself in because I was feeling depressed at a hospital. And I'm not ashamed of that. A lot of veterans go through that. But it was very interesting. One week after the hearing, this hit piece comes out of the intercept, killing the messenger, but not the message saying, I'm crazy. I have mental problems. And it was totally crazy.

Tucker Carlson (00:39:57):

Why would an intercept reporter do that?

David Grusch (00:40:00):

You would think, because weren't they pro whistleblower? Didn't Glenn Greenwald create them to actually support whistleblowers?

Tucker Carlson (00:40:06):

And if some high level bureaucrat comes to you to crush a subordinate you, because he's revealing things that the public really has a right to you think the reporters say, well, actually, I want to hear more about the program. What is this? Do you have UFOs or don't you?

David Grusch (00:40:22):

Yeah, it's like, why don't you actually look into it? It's very lazy journalism, and there's very few investigative journalists, and I'm sure you know this, that even exist anymore.

Tucker Carlson (00:40:32):

I'm very aware of it, and yes, I'm very aware of that, but I just want to get back to the core of what's going on here. It doesn't actually add up. So the idea is that for 90 years we've been collecting this stuff, monitoring it, studying it in order to improve military technology to give us an edge and in the hole, as you said.

David Grusch (00:40:51):

Yeah, there were certainly good breakthroughs that I'm aware of that did help certain black programs that are conventional in nature. I believe it, and I understand

Tucker Carlson (00:40:59):

That. Can you be more detailed than any of that?

David Grusch (00:41:01):

No, I can't. And a lot of those programs are still classified.

Tucker Carlson (00:41:04):

Right. Well, that's kind of the point I'm making. A lot of these programs are so old that no person participated in them is still alive.

David Grusch (00:41:12):

No, that was the issue is I had to find some of the old timers before they died because there's a brain drain. There's a senior intelligence officer that's currently on the program that told us that they struggle hiring even the right technical people because the OB two security, imagine the best person in quantum gravity smokes marijuana. Are they getting a TSS clearance? No. So they can't even bring in the right people. And once again, like you just said, a lot of the breakthroughs have not matriculated into civil society for the most part. And in an era of climate change and other things going on, and we can debate the genesis thereof, but this is the time to bring it out because it's going to take 20, 30 years to commercialize anything anyways. But

Tucker Carlson (00:42:02):

It does suggest that there's something more going on here. It suggests that the US government, they've kept the Kennedy assassination files, thousands of pages classified for 60 years this month because the CIA of course was in contact with Oswald and had knowledge of the conspiracy to kill Kennedy. I'm not speculating. I talked to someone who read the documents. So they have hidden those documents in order to protect themselves from public scrutiny of their own illegal immoral behavior. I'm kind of be surprised if something similar's not going on here.

David Grusch (00:42:30):

Yeah, I mean, there's a famous quote, there's a John Stossel interview where he interviews Mike Pompeo about two or three years ago where interesting. He makes a very odd in sequitur after he discusses the JFK files ironically. And he says, if I get this quote correctly, I've seen the UFO file. We have bigger problems, is what the former CI director says to John Stossel in a taped interview. And if you even go back, most people don't know this. There's a taped interview from Senator Barry Goldwater in the late eighties. He was famously a two-star general in the Air Force Reserve, but of Goldwater Nichols Act famed in the eighties. And there's an interview of him, which you can YouTube if you like, that he phoned General Curtis LeMay many years ago and asked, Hey, I heard there's a room where you keep all this UFO material. Can I have access? And General LeMay basically chewed out Senator Goldwater, who was I think gang of eight member at the time and denied him access. So there's something wrong when certain people like that try to dig into it, but

Tucker Carlson (00:43:41):

Right. But there's a reason that they're keeping it secret.

David Grusch (00:43:47):

There may be other reasons. I don't claim to be omnipotent and know all the issues. And that's why I'm not here to disclose this should be the President of the United States in his cabinet because there may be issues that I'm not even aware of that may precipitate a certain form of acknowledgement or disclosure. I do agree. There is probably something darker and deeper and more disturbing. And I did see inklings of that when I did interview so many people of high caliber.

Tucker Carlson (00:44:18):

So what is the truth about these claims of abduction?

David Grusch (00:44:22):

I don't know. Nobody I interviewed had any firsthand knowledge on that phenomenon. I certainly believe people have experienced stuff like that. At least they believe it. Because you look at Dr. John Mack, who's a Harvard trained psychologist and psychiatrist, looked at the phenomenon of abduction in the nineties and early two thousands before his death. And he affirmed that the people he psychoanalyze certainly experienced something real to them. But what is the abduction phenomenon? I really don't know. I'm not sure.

Tucker Carlson (00:45:00):

Is there any indication the US government has studied this?

David Grusch (00:45:04):

I would imagine that a part of the program that I uncovered probably would've analyzed that situation because it is data. Data, even if it's oral testimony data. But I really don't know anything about it. Do you

Tucker Carlson (00:45:20):

Think, and I've read a couple, not just in this country, but others, former governor officials saying they believe there's some spiritual connection to these things. Well,

David Grusch (00:45:33):

I think if you were to back out to the a hundred thousand foot level, there certainly is a phenomenon. And how do we quantify that? Well, theologically, we can quantify that as angels, demons, that kind of thing. Many people with religious belief systems espouse faith in that regard, and they believe that a phenomenon exists. And really what we're seeing here with the U-F-O-U-A-P subject is probably just another facet of that same phenomenon. So I think this is not something that's going to destroy, I mean, even the Vatican Chief astronomer in 2009 or 2010 said the Vatican's okay, with non-human intelligence, it doesn't hurt Catholic theology. So

Tucker Carlson (00:46:18):

The Vatican maintains an observatory? I think

David Grusch (00:46:20):

They do, yes. Yes.

Tucker Carlson (00:46:22):

In the United States.

David Grusch (00:46:24):

I believe it is in the Rome area, but I'm not an expert on the Vatican. I may

Tucker Carlson (00:46:29):

Of course be mistaken. I'm not either. Do other countries have these materials?

David Grusch (00:46:37):

Well, what I said in my initial interview with News Nation is that it ultimately became a Cold War arms race sub rosa under the noise floor. And other countries do have their own programs. And I can't get into those details because that's something I did not put through security review. However, I will point out the South China morning post in June, 2021, put out an article saying, oh yeah, we have a UP task force too. And we're using artificial intelligence to analyze UAPs. But other than that public announcement, our adversaries have kept their mouth shut on this issue. For the most part,

Tucker Carlson (00:47:17):

Technology aircraft technology has not actually progressed very far.

David Grusch (00:47:21):

No, we've plateaued

Tucker Carlson (00:47:23):

Many, many, many

David Grusch (00:47:24):

Years. Bypass Turbofan was designed, I think by Henkel in the late thirties. Yeah, exactly. And that's also my issue, right? I'm 36, I represent the under 40 generation. Well, where's our ASSO Total leap? Where's the next

Tucker Carlson (00:47:38):

That's

David Grusch (00:47:39):

Exactly right. Propulsion. And we're stuck If people care about carbon neutrality and green energy, well, if we have something that's only being studied for military purposes, that may unlock the next level of either energy, propulsion, whatever, I don't know. We should be openly studying at this point because look what's happening to the planet.

Tucker Carlson (00:48:03):

So that suggests what that military contractors are incompetent, that it's so compartmentalized. It can't. But our military aircraft haven't progressed to some crazy level either,

David Grusch (00:48:17):

Obviously, at least based on what the public knows. However, we've had multi star generals that we talked to as well, both Kern and former, that said that this program is just the wild wild West in some sense, where there's all these silos of activity. There's no monolithic director of all these activities. And it just became this uncontrolled unmanaged black abyss of looking into this. And it's so disjointed that people aren't even talking to each other. And it's very similar to the special access programs I saw. So this is really not that shocking to me. I mean, there were times where I was working on a certain intelligence community program and I see what they're doing. I'm like, you do know the DOD already has that, right? And then I would have to get them cross briefed, and this is just a symptom of that same ecosystem.

Tucker Carlson (00:49:14):

Yeah, we've seen this for all. It's just too big.

David Grusch (00:49:16):

Yeah. Well, the Department of Defense, I saw their audit came out yesterday and they couldn't account for 50% of their assets and their financial Try

Tucker Carlson (00:49:26):

That on your tax return.

Speaker 3 (00:49:27):

Well, their financial management system has been on the jail. Yeah, it's been on the GA's watch list since 1995. And I think I read in the article in the Hill they spend 5 billion a year on financial management software. Okay. Well, so when I hear like, well, the SEC def doesn't know anything about a program, well, you can't even account for 3.8 trillion of your own assets. So how do you know what the department actually has without ordering an investigation? No,

Tucker Carlson (00:49:53):

That's exactly right. At what point will this become public?

Speaker 3 (00:49:59):

So I'm glad you asked that. So I mentioned the Schumer amendments, the UAP Disclosure Act of 23. It's currently in conference. It's part of the fiscal year 24 National Defense Authorization Act, which is what funds the dod and I see. But right now it's in a perilous position because as I'm told by staffers on the Hill, the House Armed Services and Intelligence Committees are trying to block it. Specifically Mike Rogers and Mike Turner. They believe it's duplicative. It's not going to assist Arrow in any way. However, having

Tucker Carlson (00:50:33):

Mike Rogers in Mike Turner,

David Grusch (00:50:35):

The Mikes, and the thing is, is this provides them.

Tucker Carlson (00:50:38):

You are the dumbest people in Washington. It's pure tools of the National security

David Grusch (00:50:43):

System. So it helps them give top cover, it helps them declassify things. And Mike Turner, and you know who his biggest donors are, and he represents the Wright Patterson Air Force Base District. And his biggest donors are Lockheed, Raytheon, and Boeing. Of course,

Tucker Carlson (00:50:57):

He's shameful career.

David Grusch (00:50:59):

And it's very interesting because his committee, the House Intel Committee is precisely the committee I gave multiple hours of classified testimony to last year. But Mike Turner seems to just go on Fox Business after the congressional hearing and say, and he doesn't use my name, but he says, the whistleblower doesn't know what he's talking about. Nothing to see here. I'm like, really? Mike Turner, the mayor of Dayton for many years. Were you ever in the intelligence community? Were you ever a military officer? Have you ever handled special access program material for 14 years? Oh, I have. And why didn't you call me into your office if you thought my testimony was incomplete? I mean, the guy shouldn't even be reelected. No. And did you know that Mike Turner is trying to hurt Tim Burt's reelection in Tennessee? He's trying to fund an opposing candidate because Tim Burett is one of the leading Republican UAP proponents in the house. He's taken it upon himself, not only to try to block the Schumer Amendments ruin representative Burt's reelection chances, because speaking out too much about this issue. And he is basically defaming me and discrediting me on national TV when I'm sorry, representative Turner, you have no idea what you're talking about. And if you want me

Tucker Carlson (00:52:15):

To, I think he probably does. He's just

David Grusch (00:52:16):

Lying or he does. Of course, he's

Tucker Carlson (00:52:17):

Carrying water for people who don't want the public to know

David Grusch (00:52:20):

What they're doing. And Lockheed has his ear. So I'm a private citizen. I can be critical of my elected officials, and I encourage their constituents, both Mike Rogers and Mike Turner to call their offices and say, we do not want this bill to be blocked because if this bill gets signed into law, president Biden signs this. And oh, by the way, the White House is okay with this amendment. You don't think Chuck Schumer called the president or National Security Advisor before proposing his legislation? Of course he did. And this allows basically a six year process because it forms a panel of experts, a nine person panel. There's an economist, a scientist, a lawyer. I mean, it's what you would expect. And this was modeled off the JFK records Act of a 92, I believe the one they

Tucker Carlson (00:53:08):

Keep ignoring,

David Grusch (00:53:09):

The one they keep ignoring. But we added some teeth to it to try to get this all the way through. And this sets up a presidential panel and associated agency to assist a o and other parts of the executive branch to come up with a literal disclosure plan. And I encourage people to read the amendment. It is obvious if you read it, we're talking about non-human technology, non-human biologics. And we're talking about disclosure of these facts in an honest way by the chief executive if this passes. So if this doesn't pass, I mean, this is probably the most important law in US history. Let's be real. And if this doesn't pass, if it's successfully blocked by the house, I mean it's a total disgusting.

Tucker Carlson (00:53:56):

Well, it's also, I mean, we're bumping up against criminal behavior at some point. So it's like, why wouldn't people just do what generations of whistleblowers have done and just leak the material to the public?

David Grusch (00:54:06):

I never wanted to be like that. I always follow the rules. I color in the lines. Anything I talk about publicly that's sensitive, I literally make sure I can say that from a security perspective. Because think about it. There are foreign intelligence services watching this interview right now. I am not here to hurt national security, however, I am here as a fact witness because we have an oversight issue and I want things to change. My generation wants things to change. And for all the reasons I've enumerated earlier in this,

Tucker Carlson (00:54:34):

And I think they're, so this is a question about a topic that cannot be classified because it is illegal. But do you have any reason to believe that the US government has hurt or killed anybody connected to these programs, American citizens?

David Grusch (00:54:53):

There were concerns, like I stated during the hearing of people that have espoused that to me. And of course I brought some of those officers to the Inspector General Intelligence Community, inspector General, because I'm like, this is serious. And I'm like, here's the law enforcement people you want to talk to because I'm hands off. If that's true, you need to look into it. But the

Tucker Carlson (00:55:13):

Allegation was murder.

David Grusch (00:55:15):

Yes. And then physical harm. And I will say, well, I won't get into the specifics. Part of my open investigation besides the administrative stuff, and I don't know, it's an unknown entity to me. I do not know who did this. But their displeasure in me was made known in my personal life and that it affected my wife and I and had to report that to a certain counterintelligence element and a certain law enforcement element. Because right before I filed my whistleblower complaint, I felt that my life was in jeopardy. And that's what I was alluding to during the hearing because we'll just say if, when you come home and you see something, you know, made somebody unhappy, and to this day, I don't know who it was. I don't think it was a foreign entity, but there was some element that I extremely angered. And I don't say that flippantly. I said it very seriously because I thought my life was in danger.

Tucker Carlson (00:56:13):

You can't get into details because it's part of the investigation.

David Grusch (00:56:15):

It's part of the investigation. At some point, I'm happy to talk about it publicly. And also as they say in the intelligence business, you don't acknowledge your tale. So I don't want to acknowledge some other things I've noticed that maybe it

Tucker Carlson (00:56:28):

Sounds like weren't supposed

David Grusch (00:56:29):

To be. No, but you

Tucker Carlson (00:56:29):

Believe you've been surveilled and threatened.

David Grusch (00:56:32):

Oh, a hundred percent. It was obvious to me. And I mean, it was blatant. We'll just say what I observed, and it was so concerning. I ended up reporting it to the authorities and I asked my agency for certain protective measures. I can't get into that detail, but I was certainly petrified. And at the same time that those things were happening to me personally, they were happening at the same time to a certain other public figure that is known to the world. We'll just say. And another former intelligence officer near my home as well. And it was some kind of planned, multi-person intimidation activity that was very disturbing. And I'll just leave it at that. So I'm not doing this for fun. I'm serious. I'm doing this interview because this is protective for me. I don't want to be anonymous. So I'm not here for attention. This is a nightmare to even be public. I'm used to working in a vault in briefing generals. This is not me. I'm not a public communicator, although I'm trying, and that's why I'm doing it.

Tucker Carlson (00:57:43):

You're a very good communicator.

David Grusch (00:57:44):

I appreciate it. But this is a serious subject with serious consequences. And I suffered a lot of serious consequences.

Tucker Carlson (00:57:52):

So as you know, you've totally convinced me that of your sincerity, there was a lot of whispering about your motives. This is an op. Why now? Why are we learning all

David Grusch (00:58:03):

This now? Yeah. People think that I'm a part of some CIA SYOP or something like that. First of all, I've never signed any kind of paperwork to be a part of an operation in that regard. Unfortunately, there isn't a plan. I'm not a part of a plan. I ended up becoming a leader of a faction of former government officials and current government officials. That would like change in a legal way. And I encourage if there are people watching that have participated in those programs, there are multiple legal avenues, such as going to the aero office, going through the ICIG, like I did, intelligence Community Inspector General, or another cognizant inspectors general to legally provide this information. And they're

Tucker Carlson (00:58:46):

Also illegal, but morally defensible avenues like coming on this show. And I'd be delighted to host anyone who wants to tell the truth about what he's seen. And there's no justification for hiding this. That's my evaluation. So I'd be happy to take that risk to have that person on. But it sounds like, so given your own experience, when people say to you, US government employees say to you, wow, someone was killed by the US government for talking about this or planning to talk about it, it sounds like you would have to take those claims seriously.

David Grusch (00:59:19):

I did. And I remember a very, very credible senior intelligence officer precisely made those allegations in front of senior officials on Capitol Hill. I was in the room,

Tucker Carlson (00:59:30):

Elected officials,

David Grusch (00:59:31):

Their staff. I'll just say, I don't want to get into details. That's crazy.

Tucker Carlson (00:59:35):

I mean, so it's like at that point, if somebody says the US government killed an American citizen without a trial because he was going to tell the truth about something, that's kind of when everything stops. You can't have that in a free country. I

David Grusch (00:59:47):

Mean, I think people are just paralyzed in fear because that's a reality. And I remember the certain professional staff members being very upset in the room, and I mean the rightly so, but we need to do something about that because that's not good. And most of the people that even I interviewed, I'm like, do you want to go to the inspector general with me? And they're like, we'll back you up. But we don't want our name on any complaints. They were just living in fear.

Tucker Carlson (01:00:12):

So for my whole life, I'd never even thought UFOs were real until fairly recently.

David Grusch (01:00:18):

Me neither. Four years ago. If you asked me four or five years ago, if I thought UFOs are real, I would've laughed. I would've been,

Tucker Carlson (01:00:23):

No, I completely agree. But the conventional explanation for the US government among those who believed it was hiding these facts, the explanation for why was the government doesn't want to, so panic doesn't want to admit weakness in the face of its adversaries, et cetera, et cetera. Those explanations do not account for the behavior you're describing. They're hiding something real that implicates them. And if they're talking to these entities, whatever they are, and I believe on the basis of evidence that the US government has made contact and has had continuous or at least sporadic, but over a period of years contact, you don't need to nod or shake your head, but that is my belief based on talking to people. What is that?

David Grusch (01:01:06):

Yeah, if there's certainly a relationship that was cultivated with non-human intelligences, hypothetically, I guess to play off of what you just said, good or bad, it's almost like we were afraid after nine 11 dirty bombs, terrorists. Okay, well that's nature. That's life. Yin yang of the universe. If there is malevolent, non-human intelligences, okay, well that's a fact of life. Don't hide it. Because what if the US popula needs to be prepared for something hypothetically? Well, of course. And

Tucker Carlson (01:01:39):

It's also not their right to hide it because they don't own the government. The public does actually.

David Grusch (01:01:43):

Exactly. And it's just, I understand the reasons at first, but like you said, I think it's just the moral decay and the decay in leadership. And once again, well, we don't want to admit we did all this stuff years ago, but

Tucker Carlson (01:01:55):

Also if the US government has had contact with these entities, and again, it is my informed belief that the US government has had contact. What are they talking about? What is that?

David Grusch (01:02:06):

Hey, I would like to know too. I mean, I grew up watching Star Trek, so I say that kind of whimsically, but well, great. Of my generation under 40, that's like, we're not shocked. That's cool. A genzer who's 18 would want to study physics if they found out this stuff was real. Yes. This is how you boost stem in this country, for goodness sakes. I mean, this is the most exciting. Yes, a little scary. But overall it's exciting. I mean, nothing's happened. We're still living. I'm able to talk about this and nothing's happening to the world, if you will. So I think it's exciting for young people, and I think it's the right time to do this.

Tucker Carlson (01:02:48):

Going back in history, I mean there are all sorts of mysteries about history that we just can't explain even now. But it sounds like it would not be surprising to learn that people 3000 years ago had contact with these. Yeah,

David Grusch (01:03:04):

I mean, you look at the works of Jacques Valet, a famous researcher. His character was portrayed in as the French character in Close Encounters of the Third Kind by Steven Spielberg. That guy exists, his name is Jacques Vallee, and he has a PhD and he's a smart scientist, but looked at this and there's a couple books like Passport to Magia and some other stuff, and probably butchering the name where he looked into antiquity, this phenomenon. So when people say, oh, it's probably adversarial technology, et cetera, we've been seeing the same stuff since antiquity. And this should also potentially enforce stories in theological texts, say the Bible or whatever, that people actually saw Ezekiel's wheels as timber. She has espoused publicly. Maybe that actually happened. Now, unfortunately, you're bursting maybe a worldview or a bubble for some people, but it actually ultimately might enforce people's belief systems because stories in the religious texts weren't Fable allegory or whatever. They happened, and I'm not saying all of them did, but there might be evidence if we were openly and honestly studying the subject in more detail.

Tucker Carlson (01:04:20):

Amazing. Last question, small question, but clearly some connection between nuclear weapons, nuclear energy, and the sightings of these things. I mean, they've been seen around the US military installations with nuclear, so what is that?

David Grusch (01:04:37):

Yeah, you wonder if the nuclear testing was almost like a beacon. Anybody observing from far distance, like, whoa, the monkey has discovered 10 to the six tons of TNT energy extraction. They're close. Maybe they're only an order of magnitude away of energy extraction to develop technology that maybe they have hypothetically. And it might've been just like a lighthouse that we turned it on and now they became more interested. And it might be also a symptom of what we call collection bias, where modern society, we were more calibrated to look for that kind of stuff. There was sci-fi movies in the thirties and forties, and maybe people were looking up more, maybe, but certainly there is some kind of nuclear connection. What does it mean? I don't know. They're obviously performing some kind of reconnaissance in surveillance of us as it relates to not only our nuclear weapons and nuclear facilities. If anybody wants to read a book called UFOs and Nukes by Robert Hastings, he spent 40 plus years looking at interviewing Air Force missiles, other credible witnesses, and very famous incident in 1967, Bob Salas shut down the base, shut down the nukes. And we should take those observers seriously. They're trained. They have clearances, they have their jobs on the line lying in that regard. And so there is a nuclear connection. I encourage people to read that book, but what does it mean? I don't even know. No idea.

Tucker Carlson (01:06:12):

Well, you're a brave man. And I'll be honest, I didn't know what to think because there's a lot of whispering about you, but I think you're totally sincere. Thank you, sir. And I really appreciate you doing this. Thanks. Thank you.